Greeks involved in wars

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  • Onur
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2010
    • 2389

    #31
    Originally posted by Spartan View Post
    Also, I dont know why you feel you need to prove to me personally what 'pieces of shit all greeks are", or what has brought on your fanatical anti-greece stance

    Mate, I think i know the reason why Albanians, Turks and Macedonians still remember the painful events and angry about it...

    IMHO, because they are getting more and more concerned when they see the Greek army chanting about slaughtering their neighbors like pigs at 2010 and especially we are losing our hope when we see ordinary people at the streets of Athens claps these soldiers instead of protesting their racist behavior.

    I personally believe that there are leftovers of 1974 Junta of the Colonels still in Greek army. Also same for politicians in Greece who still supports "EOKA/Enosis/Megali Idea/Pan-Hellenism" nonsense.

    And i know, none of this will change till Greece revise its educational system who teaches little kids to hate all their neighbours and Greeks are supreme beings while all others are barbarians.

    Also, with all my honesty, I can assure you that %99 of Turkish people doesn't hate Greeks. How come we can hate our closest komshu while we lived together in same villages, cities for minimum 550 years?

    Don`t you know that the half of 600.000 people Greece sent to Turkey(at population exchange, 1924), could speak Greek and/or Macedonian language even better than Turkish? Or the half of one million Anatolian rhums could speak Turkish language better than Greek? Those people was our closest neighbors while some of them was even our brothers like "Karamanlides" society. The "Karamanlides" couldn't even speak a single word of Greek when they migrated to the Greece.


    This is mine and most Turkish people`s feelings and i believe majority of Macedonians and Albanians feels quite same.






    Originally posted by Spartan View Post
    You want to sell to me that the Turks are some kind of 'victims' when it comes to their time in europe? lol, youd have a better chance of selling water to the ocean.

    Its OK for you to say that about the Turks being "victims" of their times in europe. I understand you on that but the real question we all wonder is whether Greek people will say "youd have a better chance of selling water to the ocean" for peace and goodwill in Balkans OR not.
    Last edited by Onur; 04-06-2010, 01:41 PM.

    Comment

    • Spartan
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 1037

      #32
      Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
      Mate, I think i know the reason why Albanians, Turks and Macedonians still remember the painful events and angry about it...
      I think I know too.
      You see, you left 2 words out at the end of what you quoted from my previous post.... "of late".
      I was not asking this question in general.
      Thanks for the history lesson/current events update too....i guess?, although I dont understand why you feel you need to give me one.
      Also, with all my honesty, I can assure you that %99 of Turkish people doesn't hate Greeks
      Good for them.
      Although I find it hard to believe that 99% of any country would have the same stance on any single issue.
      How come we can hate our closest komshu while we lived together in same villages, cities for minimum 550 years?
      I dont know what komshu means, but I aint your komshu buddy, and you can hate/not hate anyone you want. Again, i dont understand why you are telling me all this

      oh, and 550 yrs minimum?
      sorry dude, thats wrong.
      Turks werent even in the Morea for 400.
      Last edited by Spartan; 04-06-2010, 08:57 PM.

      Comment

      • Bill77
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 4545

        #33
        Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
        I personally believe that there are leftovers of 1974 Junta of the Colonels still in Greek army. Also same for politicians in Greece who still supports "EOKA/Enosis/Megali Idea/Pan-Hellenism" nonsense.

        And i know, none of this will change till Greece revise its educational system who teaches little kids to hate all their neighbours and Greeks are supreme beings while all others are barbarians.
        I couldn't agree with you more onur.
        http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

        Comment

        • Serdarot
          Member
          • Feb 2010
          • 605

          #34
          Originally posted by Spartan View Post

          I dont know what komshu means, but I aint your komshu buddy...
          komshu = komshija = komsia = neighbor

          and sure you are komshi ^^


          and you are right, the Turks were not more than 420 years in some parts of the today´s Greece.

          Beside the victories on Marica and Kosovo, they needed some time to collect army again and to fight the local resistance, so even in the year of 1400, they didnt had big parts of the Balkans under control.

          So concidering the modern "greeks" got their independance in 1832...

          it is a bit more than 430 years.

          if that changes something :P
          Bratot:
          Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.

          Comment

          • Spartan
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 1037

            #35
            Well i guess I am his 'komshi' in that case. <shrug>

            1460 - 1830 = 370 years
            minus another 15 years due to venetian control of the Morea 1699-1714

            355 years roughly.

            There were maniot communities that held out in their mountainous territories of the south at different points throughout the duration of the ottoman occupation. Some for the entire duration.

            Of course, as you alluded to above, it makes little difference in the grand scheme of things, other than the pride we can draw from holding out so long where others could not.
            Last edited by Spartan; 04-07-2010, 02:41 PM.

            Comment

            • Bill77
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2009
              • 4545

              #36
              I found this book that i borrowed back in High school which is overdue. Boy am i in trouble.

              I will post some sections of the pages, and i apoligise for the lines running through them, i can't remember what i was thinking at the time. But you can make out the writing clearly.











              So while the Bulgars were doing it hard, there allie budies Serbia and Greece were celebrating and ripping Macedonia apart with out them.









              So Salonika was the main objective for Greece because of its seaport. I still can't get an answer why would Greece want to divide its child (Macedonia) if it was Greek. Another question unanswered is, if Greece claim independance from Ottoman rule in 1830, why leave Macedonia out if it belonged to Greece. Why celebrate independance if you are not fully independant.

              I would also like to point out us Macedonians still celebrate St Dimitria on 8th November if i am correct










              So it was a foot race to see who gets which part and not who truly is entitled to it.lol









              Albanians can thank the London conference inparticulor the Austrians for there state acording to this. But thats another subject.



















              As we can see how the term a pack of wolves came to describe our neighbours. squabbling amongst each other like vicious animal fight for there prey.
              Last edited by Bill77; 04-07-2010, 10:15 AM.
              http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

              Comment

              • fyrOM
                Banned
                • Feb 2010
                • 2180

                #37
                Julie im glad you found my previous post funny. It was meant to be but in a black comedy way.

                It is obvious from the posts of others that lies and atrocities were made. It is also unfortunate that despite this the Greeks will not loose and cannot loose. At best we can maintain the current stalemate but even this is in doubt as the necessary reforms are enacted it becomes obvious that the name is the only reason for not moving forward and it is a stubborn resistance to comply, eu trade, subsidies and grants may dry up putting pressure on the question. Has our government given adequate consideration to life outside the eu and formulated a plan.

                The currant vibe is we will recognise you as a kind of Macedonian and your name should reflect this ie North Macedonia. Unless a clear link can be shown to antiquity we are considered the mob who came from somewhere but just because we can show we have been there for a long time we became a kind of Macedonian. The irony is most of today’s Greeks are decedents from people who came from somewhere and have no clear link to the ancient Greeks but this seems to matter little to the west.

                Comment

                • Onur
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2010
                  • 2389

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Spartan View Post
                  Well i guess I am his 'komshi' in that case. <shrug>

                  1460 - 1830 = 370 years
                  minus another 15 years due to venetian control of the Morea 1699-1714

                  355

                  Thanks for calculations but even if it would be 355 years, its a looong time for neighborliness anyway, so it doesn't make huge difference.

                  Also you seem to forgot that close to the half of Greece`s population consists Anatolian people who never ever lived at the territories of current Greece before the year of 1924 and you should also consider that most of Anatolia including west Aegean side became part of Turkey at the end of 11th century, "Konia" being the capital at that time.(You probably know the folk song named Koniali, Greeks like it too )

                  So, if we take account these Anatolian people, my estimation of 550 years was kinda low, I better say 750+ years



                  These are our 750+ years neighbors, while only 85 years for the people at mainland Greece.

                  YouTube - "Adanali" Maria Soultatou & Thria






                  Notice the 2nd song here, sung in Turkish even if its very bad pronunciation but i give it to the laws in Greece as reason of this. The laws which radically bans speaking Turkish in Greece, valid till ~1960s to secure the Hellenization process but i know, some of them still speaks Turkish today.

                  YouTube - Thria Tsakitzis - Harman geri





                  P. S : I am waiting your second "<shrug>" now.
                  Last edited by Onur; 04-07-2010, 08:18 PM.

                  Comment

                  • Pelister
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2742

                    #39
                    Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
                    Mate, I think i know the reason why Albanians, Turks and Macedonians still remember the painful events and angry about it...

                    IMHO, because they are getting more and more concerned when they see the Greek army chanting about slaughtering their neighbors like pigs at 2010 and especially we are losing our hope when we see ordinary people at the streets of Athens claps these soldiers instead of protesting their racist behavior.

                    I personally believe that there are leftovers of 1974 Junta of the Colonels still in Greek army. Also same for politicians in Greece who still supports "EOKA/Enosis/Megali Idea/Pan-Hellenism" nonsense.

                    And i know, none of this will change till Greece revise its educational system who teaches little kids to hate all their neighbours and Greeks are supreme beings while all others are barbarians.

                    Also, with all my honesty, I can assure you that %99 of Turkish people doesn't hate Greeks. How come we can hate our closest komshu while we lived together in same villages, cities for minimum 550 years?

                    Don`t you know that the half of 600.000 people Greece sent to Turkey(at population exchange, 1924), could speak Greek and/or Macedonian language even better than Turkish? Or the half of one million Anatolian rhums could speak Turkish language better than Greek? Those people was our closest neighbors while some of them was even our brothers like "Karamanlides" society. The "Karamanlides" couldn't even speak a single word of Greek when they migrated to the Greece.


                    This is mine and most Turkish people`s feelings and i believe majority of Macedonians and Albanians feels quite same.


                    Its OK for you to say that about the Turks being "victims" of their times in europe. I understand you on that but the real question we all wonder is whether Greek people will say "youd have a better chance of selling water to the ocean" for peace and goodwill in Balkans OR not.
                    I agree with every point you make here. Particularly this one.

                    Originally posted by Onur
                    And i know, none of this will change till Greece revise its educational system who teaches little kids to hate all their neighbours and Greeks are supreme beings while all others are barbarians.
                    If we had another 100,000 Turks in Macedonia like the 70-80 odd thousand that are already there - there wouldn't be an Albanian problem. In fact if we had a couple hundred thousand extra people from basically anywhere concentrated in various parts - it would mean we had another 3 possibly 4 MP's in Parliament that we could add to the Macedonian coalition. I believe our future lies with Turkey/Ukraine among others and the U.S (dare I say it) - not with the E.U. A stronger Turkish military presence in Macedonia WILL CONFOUND EVERYONE. And all those schemers and those will ill intentions will start to unravel - or as the saying goes will come out of the woodwork.
                    Last edited by Pelister; 04-07-2010, 06:44 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Pelister
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 2742

                      #40
                      Bill77, thanks for that bit of information about the Balkan wars. Summed up neatly.

                      You know the Bulgarians lost. I don't know why they continue to produce their propoganda about Macedonia. They'll NEVER get it back. The Pirin region comprises about 10-15% of TOTAL Bulgarian territory, so why hold onto it? I think Bulgaria should give it back and end the bullshit. Bulgaria is not helping anyone, and it will NEVER have any more of traditional Macedonia than its got right now.

                      Comment

                      • osiris
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 1969

                        #41
                        i still have not met one turk who harbours any hatred for greeks or greece and still to meet one greek who doesnt hate turks. what happened between greece and turkey after ww 1 was greeces fault not turkeys, you cant invade a nation based on some cock and bull story and expect them to lie down and take it.

                        an wait thers more i still havent met one italian who agrees with the greek fantasy claim of una faca una raca ie one face one race as a description of their relationship with each other.
                        Last edited by osiris; 04-07-2010, 08:18 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Onur
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2010
                          • 2389

                          #42
                          Originally posted by osiris View Post
                          i still have not met one turk who harbours any hatred for greeks or greece and still to meet one greek who doesnt hate turks.
                          Check the 100s of user comments of Turkish and Greek people at youtube videos which i have linked with my previous message and see the difference of mindset.

                          I understand the reasons of Greek policy of creating Turkish hate among their citizens because if they don't do that, then some people might rediscover our common culture. If that happens then all the "myths of Hellenization" falls apart and becomes meaningless.

                          Atm, if you question why Turkish people has same music as this, cuisine etc, current Greek policy answers like "Everything made by Greeks only. Turks lived at underground for 600+ years like rats, they cant create music or food culture, they just stole baklavas, dolmas, moussakas and all from Greeks!!!!!"
                          Last edited by Onur; 04-07-2010, 08:57 PM.

                          Comment

                          • osiris
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 1969

                            #43
                            hello onur a bleated welcome to our forum komshia.
                            i think when they renamed turkish coffee to greek coffee they demonstrated once and for all how petty and vindictive they are and how false their pure hellenic culture is.

                            may i ask were your family turks or were they torbeshi

                            also regarding the original bulgarian language are there any people today who speak the modern version of it anywhere in the turkish world

                            Comment

                            • Spartan
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 1037

                              #44
                              Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
                              Thanks for calculations but even if it would be 355 years, its a looong time for neighborliness anyway, so it doesn't make huge difference.
                              Thanks genius!!
                              Can you read?
                              Or do you just ignore what I write on purpose?
                              In the post of mine which you are responding to, and quoted, did you fail to read/comprehend/understand the part I have bolded below?
                              Originally posted by Spartan View Post
                              Of course, as you alluded to above, it makes little difference in the grand scheme of things, other than the pride we can draw from holding out so long where others could not.
                              Or do you leave parts out so you can look like a 'badass' on the forums?
                              thats the second time you've pulled that
                              Lift your game son!!!
                              Also you seem to forgot that close to the half of Greece`s population consists Anatolian people who never ever lived at the territories of current Greece before the year of 1924
                              Where I am from we didnt recieve any significant amount of refugees from asia minor, if any, and the pre existing community ceased to exist 200 years ago.
                              These people are as foreign to me as the chinese.
                              Certainly to the same degree that they were foreign to the Macedonian people up until 80-90 years ago.
                              So, if we take account these Anatolian people, my estimation of 550 years was kinda low, I better say 750+ years
                              Nice math there big guy!
                              Lets call it 7000 years just for shits and giggles
                              Just look up how southern Lakonia, Mani in particular, faired during the 350 year ottoman occupation. You will then understand why they fought under a different slogan than the rest of the Greeks during the revolution.

                              As for your music, i dont listen to that type of thing.

                              P. S : I am waiting your second "<shrug>" now.
                              And I am waiting your 10th malakia.....

                              Mail2onur, whats your thoughts on the Armenian genocide?

                              Surely what we are currently bickering about is but a grain of salt in comparison to this issue?

                              spolajti
                              Last edited by Spartan; 04-07-2010, 10:32 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Onur
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 2010
                                • 2389

                                #45
                                Originally posted by osiris View Post
                                may i ask were your family turks or were they torbeshi

                                also regarding the original bulgarian language are there any people today who speak the modern version of it anywhere in the turkish world
                                Thanks osiris.

                                I really don't know for sure but my grandmother could speak Macedonian, as well as Turkish ofc.



                                If you meant "The Turkish language of ancient Bulgars", answer is no because Bulgarians abandoned their Turkish culture as early as 9th century. AFAIK, there was old Bulgar Khans with pure Turkish names b4 this cultural change.


                                I wrote about this b4 on forum;
                                Originally posted by mail2onur View Post
                                About the word "Bul-gar";

                                "Bul" means "to mix, mixing" in Turkish, like the word "Bul-amac" used when you "mix a different ingredients of a meal". OR the word "Bul-andirmak" used when you "mix something in liquid form and cause turmoil in it". "Gar" signifies the darkness or blackness as you said.



                                In ancient Turkish records and legends from medieval times, its written like;
                                "After the death of the Turkic Khagan Attilla of the Huns, all the unified Turkic tribes(which formed an union to beat Roman Empire) of the Hun empire disbanded at 5th century AD. Most of them returned to their homeland of Khazar sea and Attil of Volga river(Todays Ukraine and surroundings) but some of them stayed at Balkans. So, this tribe who stayed at Balkans, later called as "Bul-gar-s" because they intermarried with some local people in there like Slavs and all others, they mixed with them and forget/abandoned their culture in the end."

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