Pontians, Who are they ?

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  • Stojacanec
    Member
    • Dec 2009
    • 809

    #16
    Welcome to the forum Macedonian_Nationalist

    Voultron has a problem where some places should not be known as located in Aegean Macedonia because these places might be closer to the Ionian Sea.

    But he is comfortable with the 1 million turks that populated New Greece 90 years ago because they are not indigenous to Macedonian land. These people didn't lose land they were given it. How ironic, it is these refugees that (supposedly) lost land when leaving Turkey. Now Greece isn't happy because that is according to them lost Greek land.

    People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.......
    Last edited by Stojacanec; 07-23-2012, 08:58 AM.

    Comment

    • Onur
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2010
      • 2389

      #17
      Originally posted by Stojacanec View Post
      How ironic, it is these refugees that (supposedly) lost land when leaving Turkey. Now Greece isn't happy because that is according to them lost Greek land.
      Golden Dawn`s gypsy leader speaking to those neo-hellenes from Anatolia, promising them for invading Anatolia again if they win the elections and they wildly cheers for him.

      This is an election rally speech from last month but ironically he says that Greece cannot be saved by elections !!!

      Greece's Golden Dawn leader praises junta dictatorship - YouTube

      Comment

      • Louis
        Banned
        • Jun 2012
        • 109

        #18
        Macedonian Nationalist,
        I'm Greek, so I can provide some answers, if the questions are (at least) semi-serious. I understand I'll be sent... to find Voltron, but that's not a big problem.
        Last edited by Louis; 07-23-2012, 12:45 PM.

        Comment

        • Louis
          Banned
          • Jun 2012
          • 109

          #19
          Originally posted by Stojacanec View Post
          But he is comfortable with the 1 million turks that populated New Greece 90 years ago because they are not indigenous to Macedonian land. These people didn't lose land they were given it. How ironic, it is these refugees that (supposedly) lost land when leaving Turkey.
          I’ll try to give you an example since my maternal grandmother’s family was refugees from Asia Minor. That was a family where both husband and wife were in their second marriage, and had six children from their first marriages and from their common marriage, including an orphan nephew whose whole family had been killed by the Turks.
          They had two big houses and 3 or 4 different estates, horses etc. When they came to Greece they were put in a shantytown made for the refugees in the suburbs of Thessaloniki. Soon they lost three of their children from various diseases, two boys around 18 years old at the same time and later a girl around 15. That sounds like a lot of fun.
          Last edited by Louis; 07-23-2012, 12:58 PM.

          Comment

          • George S.
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 10116

            #20
            Good point Lois you raise the issue where even from the prosfige side how they were forced & uprooted to go to macedonia a foreign country.Not an easy thing to do.But the macedonians were dealt a more harsher blow being either forced to assimmilate or to get out completely.The macedonians were beaten up for being just macedonian.It's written that the macedonians previously had to contend with the turks then the greeks & then the prosfiges who were a feroceous people.They raped & pillaged etckilled macedonians at will & committed attrocities at will on macedonians.My thoughts are with the poor macedonians who had to bear the brunt of it all.
            Last edited by George S.; 07-23-2012, 02:04 PM. Reason: ed
            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
            GOTSE DELCEV

            Comment

            • George S.
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 10116

              #21
              good to see the stupid idiot voltron get banned at long last.The man is a psycho who just doesn't get it get a reality check man & wake up to yourself where's your humanity???
              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
              GOTSE DELCEV

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15658

                #22
                Originally posted by Louis View Post
                I’ll try to give you an example since my maternal grandmother’s family was refugees from Asia Minor. That was a family where both husband and wife were in their second marriage, and had six children from their first marriages and from their common marriage, including an orphan nephew whose whole family had been killed by the Turks.
                They had two big houses and 3 or 4 different estates, horses etc. When they came to Greece they were put in a shantytown made for the refugees in the suburbs of Thessaloniki. Soon they lost three of their children from various diseases, two boys around 18 years old at the same time and later a girl around 15. That sounds like a lot of fun.
                And now their offspring call themselves Greek and Macedonian. Why?
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • Louis
                  Banned
                  • Jun 2012
                  • 109

                  #23
                  Do you find a contradiction? You call yourself an Australian even though your parents landed there in the 60s, not in the 1920s and not because you’re half Aborigine.
                  The refugees themselves are now dead and their children are old or dying. The people living now in Macedonia are grand-children of the people born in that era or great-grandchildren of the 1910s-1920s protagonists. Most of them (including me) are urban people with mixed ancestry of locals and refugees, people from the rest of Greece or foreigners.

                  Comment

                  • Vangelovski
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 8530

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Louis View Post
                    Do you find a contradiction? You call yourself an Australian even though your parents landed there in the 60s, not in the 1920s and not because you’re half Aborigine.
                    The refugees themselves are now dead and their children are old or dying. The people living now in Macedonia are grand-children of the people born in that era or great-grandchildren of the 1910s-1920s protagonists. Most of them (including me) are urban people with mixed ancestry of locals and refugees, people from the rest of Greece or foreigners.
                    There's no contradiction in RtG calling himself an Australian. "Australian" denotes a citizen of Australia.
                    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                    Comment

                    • machorot
                      Junior Member
                      • May 2010
                      • 78

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                      And now their offspring call themselves Greek and Macedonian. Why?
                      RTG, as long as they learn how to speak Macedonian...... :-)

                      Comment

                      • George S.
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 10116

                        #26
                        i Don't think the prosfeges or anyone bought in from the outside can be called a macedonian.But they can call themselves greek even that streches the imagination a bit as greek they are not..
                        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                        GOTSE DELCEV

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15658

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Louis View Post
                          Do you find a contradiction? You call yourself an Australian even though your parents landed there in the 60s, not in the 1920s and not because you’re half Aborigine.
                          The refugees themselves are now dead and their children are old or dying. The people living now in Macedonia are grand-children of the people born in that era or great-grandchildren of the 1910s-1920s protagonists. Most of them (including me) are urban people with mixed ancestry of locals and refugees, people from the rest of Greece or foreigners.

                          Originally posted by Vangelovski
                          There's no contradiction in RtG calling himself an Australian. "Australian" denotes a citizen of Australia.
                          Louis, as Vangelovski stated, I am indeed a citizen of Australia and I call myself Australian (particularly when I go overseas).

                          I have no problem with your mixed ancestry peoples calling themselves Greek. They are Greek citizens. But calling themselves Macedonian is ludicrous and you know it. I could understand their desire to be called Macedonian if they were living a country called Macedonia. Where do you disagree?
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • Louis
                            Banned
                            • Jun 2012
                            • 109

                            #28
                            Greeks use the term Macedonian, for people who live in or come from Macedonia. They don’t mean it in an ethnic or national sense as you do. Also, no one has used or suggested the term Macedonian as a synonym of Greek, if that’s what you imply.

                            The people of the Rainbow Party now call themselves εθνικά Μακεδόνες (ethnic Macedonians). They also emphasize what you already mentioned, that they are not Greeks, only citizens of Greece.

                            Comment

                            • Risto the Great
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 15658

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Louis View Post
                              Greeks use the term Macedonian, for people who live in or come from Macedonia. They don’t mean it in an ethnic or national sense as you do. Also, no one has used or suggested the term Macedonian as a synonym of Greek, if that’s what you imply.
                              So it is a local thing for domestic consumption only by the sound of it.

                              Oh good, we have progress. But should I take your word for it? Because the answer is clear. We have Greeks from the Macedonian geographic region who are concerned that Macedonians from Macedonia are calling themselves Macedonians.

                              So in fact, the Greeks are just being miserable wankers and not accepting the fact they are actually nothing more than Greeks who live in the geographic region of Macedonia that presently is in Greece. They are the ones who need to qualify their self descriptions and I would suggest they call themselves Greeks. Wouldn't you?

                              Louis, I think the Ministry of Greek Falsifications will be getting in touch with you shortly. You have gone too far.
                              Risto the Great
                              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                              Comment

                              • Louis
                                Banned
                                • Jun 2012
                                • 109

                                #30
                                First of all, I don’t hope that we may educate or surprise each other, but maybe we can inform third parties that are reading our discussion.

                                Greeks already call themselves… Greeks (you don’t need to suggest that). A Greek being Macedonian (or Thracian or Cretan etc.) is a secondary local description. During Ottoman Empire one of my ancestors spent his life in the borderline of Eastern Macedonia and Thrace. His basic identity was that he was Greek; he was not Macedonian in the morning and Thracian in the night. The Ottoman or Greek administrative divisions (in 1910 or in 2010) meant and mean very little.

                                [Nevertheless, at first Comintern (Communist Internationale) really believed that there’s a unique Thracian people with its’ unique Thracian language and identity which is not Greek, Turkish or Bulgarian. This opinion was revoked a few years later.]

                                The Greeks do not doubt that you’re Macedonian (in a geographical sense) or that you’re implicated in Macedonia’s History (as other have). Thus names as Northern Macedonia (geographical term) or Slav Macedonia (ethnic term) might have been acceptable (or at least have some chances) in the past, yet several things have changed or evolved in the last 20 years.

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