Pontians, Who are they ?

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  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    #31
    Lois think about it changing the name you are advocating gives greece a monopoly over the
    name same like the sun symbols.Does the greeks have a right to do this no .At the same time you are talking about a name of a country with a macedonian population.Also you are talking about a province with no macedonians just greeks & the minority endopi as macedonians.Where's your macedonians they are turks,prosfeges,pontians.You have no right to call greeks macedonians.Even if they are born there they are not macedonians.It's only recently that greece proclaimed northern greece as macedonian to counteract ROM.How are greek claims explained when prior to 1912 they have never set foot on macedonian soil it only occupied it & since then tried to alter anything resembling macedonia,So greece resorts to 2550 years ago history because the royal family spoke greek supposedlythey were greek bs they had a mother tounge.Where as the normal macedonian never needed to speak greek they had their mother tounge .So we come to greece who is a fake & concocted by the western powers in 1832 as a country..
    Last edited by George S.; 07-26-2012, 04:50 PM. Reason: ed
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #32
      Originally posted by Louis View Post
      First of all, I don’t hope that we may educate or surprise each other, but maybe we can inform third parties that are reading our discussion.

      Greeks already call themselves… Greeks (you don’t need to suggest that). A Greek being Macedonian (or Thracian or Cretan etc.) is a secondary local description. During Ottoman Empire one of my ancestors spent his life in the borderline of Eastern Macedonia and Thrace. His basic identity was that he was Greek; he was not Macedonian in the morning and Thracian in the night. The Ottoman or Greek administrative divisions (in 1910 or in 2010) meant and mean very little.

      [Nevertheless, at first Comintern (Communist Internationale) really believed that there’s a unique Thracian people with its’ unique Thracian language and identity which is not Greek, Turkish or Bulgarian. This opinion was revoked a few years later.]

      The Greeks do not doubt that you’re Macedonian (in a geographical sense) or that you’re implicated in Macedonia’s History (as other have). Thus names as Northern Macedonia (geographical term) or Slav Macedonia (ethnic term) might have been acceptable (or at least have some chances) in the past, yet several things have changed or evolved in the last 20 years.
      So Greeks want to call themselves Greeks and then use an additional identifier to more clearly describe themselves. Like the "secondary local description" you refer to.

      For the benefit of other readers (and also continuing with your theme), Macedonians call themselves "Macedonian" in a primary or in fact an ethnic sense. So there is absolutely no room for confusion whatsoever. If a Greek wishes to call himself a Macedonian, he will do so as a Greek Macedonian. The name dispute is laughable. It is not a dispute, it is a silly game being played by Greece and the Macedonians have been swept up in this charade. I am disgusted with Macedonians who perpetuate this non existent dispute.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Makedonska_Kafana
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2010
        • 2642

        #33
        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
        Some of these Prosfigi/Madziri will try to tell you that Alexander took a dump in their backyard and as a consequence, they have a right to be called Macedonian
        hahahaha funny and very true
        http://www.makedonskakafana.com

        Macedonia for the Macedonians

        Comment

        • Liberator of Makedonija
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2014
          • 1595

          #34
          Extremely interesting how these modern nations form
          I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

          Comment

          • tchaiku
            Member
            • Nov 2016
            • 786

            #35
            Pontians feel Greek though?

            Comment

            • Liberator of Makedonija
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2014
              • 1595

              #36
              Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
              Pontians feel Greek though?
              It's called Hellenisation
              I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13669

                #37
                Here's a short and interesting clip about the way Christian refugees from Turkey were treated by people from Greece when they arrived after the population exchange in the 1920's.

                Interviews with Anatolian immigrants in Greece, who gone there after the population exchange of 1923 between Greece and Turkey.A short excerpt from a documen...
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332

                  #38
                  Laz people




                  Origin of Pontians


                  (Bear with me, as the following is mostly Google Translate with some minor corrections. I have excluded some parts.)



                  The self-proclaimed Pontians are the Christianized arm of the native tribe of the Muslim Laz people who were expelled to Greece in 1923 under the Lausanne Treaty.

                  The second and most important part of Laz people remained in Lazistan (Pontus) because they embraced the Muslim religion.

                  Lazistan (Lazona) was the Ottoman name for the administrative province of the Vilaet of Trebizond, which was inhabited by native Lazes who spoke the Laz language.

                  Continuous historical reference of the "Byzantine" chroniclers to the (Comnenus) emperors of Trebizond with the nickname "Archontes of the Lazes", certifies the racial identity of the Pontian-Lazes. The words / terms Pontos, Hellas and Hellenic are absent in sources. A reference to the Laz name is in 380 AD when the Great Theodosius first awarded the title of "The Highness of the Colchis and the Laz", while Prokopios writes in the years of Justinian «Λαζοί (Lazoi) τα μεν πρώτα yην Κολχίδα ώκουν».

                  In the 18th century Laz Muslims settled in Cyprus and Crete, transferring their cultural influence. An important community of Laz Muslims exists on the islands of Imbros and Tenedos.

                  The most important historical source for the medieval state of Trebizond (1204-1461) comes from the historical text "About the Trebizond Kings" by Michael Panaretos (1320-1390) of a Roman scholar who was born in Trebizond. The text of this precious chronology is deliberately not published on the thousands of webpages that refer to "Pontic history of the tragedy". The reason is twofold. One of the precious manuscripts of Michael Panaretos was discovered and first published in 1827 by the well-known Austrian historian J. Fallmerayer (1790-1861) entitled "Geschichte des Kaisertums von Trapezunt"; on the other hand, in the original text of Panaretos, there is not the slightest mention of the Greek people of the Land.

                  Michael Panaretos briefly describes a blood "confession" around the Throne of Trebizond, full of devilish intrigues, atrocities and mainly submissiveness and implications of Trebizond with Georgians, Seljuks, Turkomans, Mongols, Lazes and Genoese who were living in the region. It goes without saying that the words Pontos and Pontioi are absent.

                  Identifying racially with the Pontians, the Lazes are indigenous peoples of Turkey with a Caucasian origin and a peculiar language resembling Georgian. In 1923 those Lazes who followed a Christian Orthodox doctrine were forced to emigrate to Greece under the Lausanne treaty. The rest remained in Turkey.

                  1. The so-called Satrapy of Pontus of the Hellenistic period, was a Persian state created by the Persian dynasty of Mithridates, while the medieval falsified "Empire of Trebizond" of the Great-Comneni was an Armenian-Georgian protectorate hostile to "Byzantium".

                  2. The novel term "Pontians" was historically non-existent before the 20th century. Pontians are also now (very recently) called “Ελληνοπόντιοι” - Hellenopontians.

                  3. In 1923 only 20% of the inhabitants of Pontus fled to Greece. This percentage corresponded to the total Christian population of the region (Vilayets Trebizond, Kerasounta and Kastamonos). The remaining 80% remained in Turkey because of their attachment to Islam.

                  4. The only criterion of expatriation was Christianity, attachment to the Patriarchate, and the ensuing, almost avid, philhellenism.

                  5. Half of the Pontus refugees were Turkish-speaking, known as Μπαφραλήδες (Bafrali), the rest of them spoke the Pontic dialect as well as the Laz language. Mixtures with the Turks were innumerable. Apart from the Seljuks who penetrated the Pontus in the 11th century, Chepnis, a Turkmen branch of the Oghuz branch (Ogouzis) who settled in the area of ​​Trebizond in the 13th century, have a strong historical presence.

                  6. These Pontian exiles in Greece and especially in Macedonia do not have the slightest genealogical relationship with the Ionian settlers of the Black Sea. They are population-medley of Armenians, Seljuks, Georgians and mainly Lazes, mixed with the innumerable native peoples of the area. Armenian presence was particularly strong. According to Ronald C. Jennings at the beginning of 16th c. the Armenians of Trebizond constituted 13% of the population.
                  Last edited by Carlin; 05-12-2017, 12:02 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    #39
                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazia_(Pontus)

                    - Lazica remained a client state of the "Byzantines" from 522 until the arrival of the Arabs in the seventh century.

                    - Rural areas of Trebizond Empire appear to have been predominantly Laz in ethnic composition, the Laz monopolizing its coastal shipping and even transporting Trebizontine troops in their small craft. In the tenth century the Arab geographer Abul Feda regarded Trebizond as being largely a Lazian port. Byzantine authors, such as Pachymeres, and to some extent Trapezundines such as Lazaropoulos and Bessarion, regarded the Trapezundian Empire as being no more than a Lazian border state.

                    - It is likely that the majority of the Empire’s armed forces was made up of native elements, comprised chiefly of Tzannoi (in fact actually Laz). These latter were probably the responsibility of the office of Grand Constable, a post actually held for much of this period by a Laz family with the surname of Tzanichites.

                    - Ecclesiastically, the western part of Lazistan belonged to the jurisdiction of the Metropolite of Trebizond who used the title ‘Exarchos pasis Lazicus' to describe it.


                    Now, I did some research on the Laz and their connection to the modern Pontian Greeks; let's see and pay attention to the following - especially the highlighted parts.






                    Summary:
                    - The Turkish-speaking Greeks from the inner depths of eastern Anatolia used the term LAZ to refer to Pontic Greek-speakers!
                    - Sometimes, the Greeks are called LAZ.
                    - Many call that language Lazika, also Romayka but never Elinika, nor Pondiaka.







                    Let all that marinate for a while.
                    Last edited by Carlin; 05-14-2017, 04:12 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Carlin
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2011
                      • 3332

                      #40


                      So nowadays virtually all Black Sea-origin Greeks refer to themselves as Pontic/Pontian and consider the term Laz (used by other Greeks up till recently) as derogatory and insulting. There is, however, some indication that through the early 20th c. the term could be used by native Pontians without a sense of deprecation -- the term was used by WWI-era Pontic immigrants to Boston and Ohio, most of whom were Protestant converts from the Ordu region (New England-based missionaries were quite active in 19th c.; Anatolia aimed at converting eastern Christians to evangelical Protestantism). There was even an etymology that filtered down from the Hellenizing teachers to the folk and reflected the growing Hellenic affirmation: Laz, pl. Lazi, comes from the phrase "I Ellas zi," meaning "Greece (Hellas) lives," and because of their peculiar accents (now attributed to a generation of males having had their tongues cut out by the Turks) was pronounced "Lazi."


                      Laz, pl. Lazi, comes from the phrase "I Ellas zi," meaning Greece (Hellas) lives

                      Comment

                      • tchaiku
                        Member
                        • Nov 2016
                        • 786

                        #41
                        Originally posted by carlin View Post
                        laz people




                        origin of pontians


                        (bear with me, as the following is mostly google translate with some minor corrections. I have excluded some parts.)



                        the self-proclaimed pontians are the christianized arm of the native tribe of the muslim laz people who were expelled to greece in 1923 under the lausanne treaty.

                        The second and most important part of laz people remained in lazistan (pontus) because they embraced the muslim religion.

                        Lazistan (lazona) was the ottoman name for the administrative province of the vilaet of trebizond, which was inhabited by native lazes who spoke the laz language.

                        Continuous historical reference of the "byzantine" chroniclers to the (comnenus) emperors of trebizond with the nickname "archontes of the lazes", certifies the racial identity of the pontian-lazes. The words / terms pontos, hellas and hellenic are absent in sources. A reference to the laz name is in 380 ad when the great theodosius first awarded the title of "the highness of the colchis and the laz", while prokopios writes in the years of justinian «Λαζοί (lazoi) τα μεν πρώτα yην Κολχίδα ώκουν».

                        In the 18th century laz muslims settled in cyprus and crete, transferring their cultural influence. An important community of laz muslims exists on the islands of imbros and tenedos.

                        The most important historical source for the medieval state of trebizond (1204-1461) comes from the historical text "about the trebizond kings" by michael panaretos (1320-1390) of a roman scholar who was born in trebizond. The text of this precious chronology is deliberately not published on the thousands of webpages that refer to "pontic history of the tragedy". The reason is twofold. One of the precious manuscripts of michael panaretos was discovered and first published in 1827 by the well-known austrian historian j. Fallmerayer (1790-1861) entitled "geschichte des kaisertums von trapezunt"; on the other hand, in the original text of panaretos, there is not the slightest mention of the greek people of the land.

                        Michael panaretos briefly describes a blood "confession" around the throne of trebizond, full of devilish intrigues, atrocities and mainly submissiveness and implications of trebizond with georgians, seljuks, turkomans, mongols, lazes and genoese who were living in the region. It goes without saying that the words pontos and pontioi are absent.

                        Identifying racially with the pontians, the lazes are indigenous peoples of turkey with a caucasian origin and a peculiar language resembling georgian. In 1923 those lazes who followed a christian orthodox doctrine were forced to emigrate to greece under the lausanne treaty. The rest remained in turkey.

                        1. The so-called satrapy of pontus of the hellenistic period, was a persian state created by the persian dynasty of mithridates, while the medieval falsified "empire of trebizond" of the great-comneni was an armenian-georgian protectorate hostile to "byzantium".

                        2. The novel term "pontians" was historically non-existent before the 20th century. Pontians are also now (very recently) called “Ελληνοπόντιοι” - hellenopontians.

                        3. In 1923 only 20% of the inhabitants of pontus fled to greece. This percentage corresponded to the total christian population of the region (vilayets trebizond, kerasounta and kastamonos). The remaining 80% remained in turkey because of their attachment to islam.

                        4. The only criterion of expatriation was christianity, attachment to the patriarchate, and the ensuing, almost avid, philhellenism.

                        5. Half of the pontus refugees were turkish-speaking, known as Μπαφραλήδες (bafrali), the rest of them spoke the pontic dialect as well as the laz language. Mixtures with the turks were innumerable. Apart from the seljuks who penetrated the pontus in the 11th century, chepnis, a turkmen branch of the oghuz branch (ogouzis) who settled in the area of ​​trebizond in the 13th century, have a strong historical presence.

                        6. These pontian exiles in greece and especially in macedonia do not have the slightest genealogical relationship with the ionian settlers of the black sea. They are population-medley of armenians, seljuks, georgians and mainly lazes, mixed with the innumerable native peoples of the area. Armenian presence was particularly strong. According to ronald c. Jennings at the beginning of 16th c. The armenians of trebizond constituted 13% of the population.
                        bump..........

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazia_(Pontus)
                        Last edited by tchaiku; 05-06-2018, 05:57 AM.

                        Comment

                        • tchaiku
                          Member
                          • Nov 2016
                          • 786

                          #42
                          Pontians, basicially come as Lazes and Armenians in genetic studies. I don't know what other excuses they have left to use.

                          Comment

                          • Carlin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3332

                            #43
                            Armenians probably constituted 30% to 50% of Eastern Anatolia in the late 19th century.

                            Comment

                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              #44
                              Amphipolis, would you be able to provide an accurate summary of the below? There seem to be repeated references to Lazes and Armenians. Thanks.



                              Τελικά,οί φίλοι μας οί Πόντιοι καί μη,θα μας παρουσιάσουν ένα ΕΜΠΕΡΙΣΤΑΤΩΜΕΝΟ ιστορικά χρονολόγιο από το περίφημο «ποντιακό αντάρτικο»;

                              Καί όταν λέμε εμπεριστατωμένο εννοούμε ιστορικές μαρτυρίες καί ΚΑΤΑΓΡΑΦΕΣ από ξένους καί ημεδαπούς ιστορικούς καί συγγραφείς.
                              Καί όταν λέμε εμπεριστατωμένο εννοούμε να αποδεικνύεται από κάποιο κρατικό αρχείο, ή από περιηγητές Ευρωπαίους καί μη, όπως γιά παράδειγμα τού οθωμανικού ή άλλου ευρωπαϊκού κράτους η της ευρύτερης περιοχής τού Ευξείνου Πόντου,όπως γιά παράδειγμα τού Ρωσικού.

                              Περιμένουμε λοιπόν ΑΚΟΜΗ συγκεκριμένες λίστες ανταρτικών ομάδων,οπλαρχηγών καί τούς τόπους δράσεών τους,νεκρούς,τραυματίες όπως καί απώλειες τυχόν εχθρικών τμημάτων κλπ.

                              Περιμένουμε επομένως ΣΥΓΚΕΚΡΙΜΕΝΑ στοιχεία καί καταστάσεις όλων των μαχών πού έλαβαν χώρα από τούς Πόντιους «αντάρτες» καί ό,τι έχει να κάνει με αυτές καί με τούς πρωταγωνιστές τους.
                              Γιά να μην μπαίνουμε ξανά σε διαδικασία αρίθμητων αναφορών καί δημοσιεύσεων από την μεριά μας καί πού έχουμε ήδη δημοσιεύσει κατά καιρούς,θυμίζω πως ούτε υπήρχε κάποιος εθνοτικός προσδιορισμός «πόντιος» καί ούτε στην πραγματικότητα έχει υπάρξει.
                              Το «πόντιος» είναι προσδιορισμός των τελευταίων πέντε σχεδόν δεκαετιών.

                              Διευκρινίζω επίσης πως οί αγαπητοί κατά τα άλλα «Πόντιοι» πολύ πριν την περίφημη προσφυγιά τους κατά μεγάλο μέρος είχαν κυριολεκτικά αδειάσει τον Πόντο πηγαίνοντας σε περιοχές της τσαρικής Ρωσίας,όπου καί από εκεί σχεδίαζαν ΣΤΑ ΧΑΡΤΙΑ Ποντο-Λαζικό και Ποντο-Αρμενικό κράτος !

                              Αυτές είναι μερικές αλήθειες από όλο το ποντιακό παραμυθάκι πού με συστηματικό τρόπο προβάλλεται από κύκλους γνωστότατους τις τελευταίες δεκαετίες καί μιά έρευνα σε όσα έχει γράψει ο ίδιος ο ιστορικός Παύλος Καρολίδης επιβεβαιώνουν τα όσα ισχυρίζομαι.
                              Όσον αφορά γιά το περίφημο «αντάρτικο» των «Ποντίων» δεν υπήρξε ΠΟΤΕ καί απλά μιλάμε γιά ΚΑΠΟΙΕΣ μικρές πολιτοφυλακές σε ορισμένες περιοχές υπό την έγκριση των ίδιων των οθωμανικών αρχών γιά να αντιμετωπισθούν οί αρμενικές ανταρτικές ομάδες πού υποκινούνταν από την Ρωσία,με σκοπό την δημιουργία ΣΤΟΝ ΠΟΝΤΟ Αρμενικού κράτους !
                              Αλλά καί σε αυτή ακόμη την περίπτωση οί υποτιθέμενοι Πόντιοι αντάρτες πάλι έφαγαν τα μούτρα τους λόγω της παντελούς έλλειψης διάθεσης γιά πραγματική αντίσταση καί πού κυριολεκτικά οί Αρμένιοι τούς εξαφάνισαν.

                              Τελειώνω με την ιστορικά ΚΑΤΑΓΕΓΡΑΜΜΕΝΗ διαπίστωση πως ήδη από τα μέσα προς τέλη τού 1800 εκπρόσωποι τού Πόντου είχαν αρχίσει επαφές μέσω της ελλαδικής εκκλησίας με το ελληνικό κράτος με σχέδιο των Βρετανών γιά ΜΑΖΙΚΗ εγκατάλειψη τού Πόντου από τούς «Ποντίους» ώστε να εποικιστεί η ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ με σκοπό να αποτελέσουν οί «Πόντιοι» το ανάχωμα των Σλάβων γιά την καθοδό τους στο Αιγαίο!!!(μήπως θυμίζει κάτι το οποίο έγινε αρκετά αργότερα.

                              Αυτά με λίγα λόγια γιά τούς φίλους μας «Ποντίους» καί ό,τι είπα καί έγραψα ας τολμήσει όποιος θέλει να κάνει την ερευνά του να τα διασταυρώσει καί να τα εξακριβώσει.

                              Ως προς την εθνολογική ή ιστορική ή ανθρωπολογική άποψη πού αφορά τον λαό αυτόν είναι μία άλλη πονεμένη ιστορία πού όποια ή όποιος ΤΟΛΜΑ ας ερευνήσει καί ας βγάλει τα συμπεράσματά του.

                              Όποιος λοιπόν έχει τα κότσια ας ερευνήσει καί εννοούμε να ερευνήσει όχι με το τι λένε οί στρατευμένοι «ειδήμονες» Πόντιοι μεταξύ τους καί πού ο ένας αναφέρεται στον άλλον,εννοούμε έρευνα ιστορική από τις όποιες πρωταρχικές πηγές πού συμπεριλαμβάνουν φυσικά καί την ΔΙΕΘΝΗ βιβλιογραφία.

                              Τα υπόλοιπα είναι να 'χαμε να λέγαμε συντρόφισσες καί σύντροφοι μπατριώται.

                              Συμβουλεύω τούς φίλους μας μπατριώτες πού αναπαράγουν ασύστολα ιστορικά ψεύδη πού αναμασάνε από προπαγανδιστικές πηγές Ποντίων,επιτέλους να σταματήσουν διότι αποδεικνύουν πως εκτός τού ότι δεν ξέρουν τι τούς γίνεται κινδυνεύουν να θεωρηθούν συνειδητά παπαγαλάκια υπόπτου προελεύσεως.

                              Ας καθορίσουν επιτέλους μία επέτειο «εθνική» τού ανταρτικού αγώνα τους οί φίλοι μας οί Πόντιοι καί ας αφήσουν τις κλάψες της γενοκτονίας τους καί τού κατατρεγμού τους.

                              Γιατί και σε αυτό πρέπει κάποτε να μας απαντήσουν ξεκάθαρα,το γιατί επιτέλους ΔΕΝ εορτάζεται επίσημα ο ανταρτικός τους αγώνας σε αντίθεση με την συστηματική τους επιδίωξη να συγκεντρώσουν επάνω τους όλο τον οίκτο της οικουμένης.

                              Γκέγκε μπατριώται;
                              Last edited by Carlin; 05-25-2018, 11:30 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Amphipolis
                                Banned
                                • Aug 2014
                                • 1328

                                #45
                                This is a google translation and is basically comprehensible. Any part you're interested in and doesn't make sense? The text doesn't really have content and asks for proofs and details for what he calls "Pontic guerillas" and “Pontiac rebellion”.

                                The author seems to be an anonymous Albanian or Arvanite.

                                Finally, our friends the points and not, will present a detailed historical chronology of the famous "Pontiac guerrilla"?

                                And when we say thoroughly we mean historical testimonies and recordings by foreign and national historians and writers.
                                And when we say in-depth, we are meant to be proven by a state archive, or by traveler Europeans or not, such as the Ottoman or other European state or the wider Black Sea region, such as the Russian one.

                                So we are expecting specific lists of rebel groups, chieftains and their places of action, dead, wounded as well as losses of any hostile parts, etc.

                                We are therefore expecting specific facts and statements of all the battles that have taken place among Pontian "rebels" and what has to do with them and their protagonists.
                                In order not to go back into the process of countless reports and publications on our part and where we have already published from time to time, I would remind you that there was no ethical definition of "pontius" nor actually there was.
                                The "pontius" is the determination of the last five decades.

                                I also make it clear that the dear "Pontians", long before their famous refugee, had literally emptied the Pontus by going to areas of tsarist Russia, where from there they were planning on PAPA-LAZA and POTO-Armenian State Maps!

                                These are some truths from the entire Pontian story, which is systematically projected by circles known in the last decades, and a survey of what the historian Paul Carolidis himself has written confirms what I claim.
                                Regarding the famous "guerrilla" of the Pontians, there was NEVER and simply talking about some small militias in certain areas, under the Ottoman authorities' own approval, to deal with the Armenian rebel groups instigated by Russia in order to create THE POND of the Armenian state!
                                But even in this case the supposed Pontians rebels once again ate their waves because of the total lack of mood for real resistance and which literally the Armenians had vanished them.

                                I finish with the historically RECOGNIATED finding that from the mid-late 1800s Pontus representatives had begun contacts through the Greek church with the Greek state with a plan of the British for MASSIC abandonment of the Pontus by the "Pontians" in order to settle MACEDONIA in order that the "Pontians" should be the swamp of the Slavs for their descending into the Aegean Sea !!! (it reminds of something that happened quite later.

                                These in a few words for our friends "Pontius" and what I said and wrote let anyone dare to do his research to cross them and verify them.

                                As to the ethnological, historical or anthropological aspect of this people, it is another painful story that any one of us will investigate and draw its conclusions.

                                Whoever has the guts to investigate, and we mean to investigate not what the fellow "Pontians" are talking to each other, and where one refers to the other, we mean historical research from any of the primary sources that include, of course, the INTERNATIONAL BIBLIOGRAPHY.

                                The rest is to say, "Come on," and comrades are kicking.

                                I advise our patriotic boyfriends who are blatantly reproducing historical lies that stir up propaganda sources from the Pontians at last to stop because they prove that apart from not knowing what is being done, they are in danger of being considered conspirators of a suspect of origin.

                                Let us finally determine a national "anniversary" of their guerrilla struggle, our friends the Pontians, and let them cry their genocide and their seduction.

                                This is why we must once again respond to this very clearly, because at last their official struggle is NOT officially celebrated, as opposed to their systematic pursuit of gathering all the pity of the world on them.

                                Ghegge is batting?

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