"There is no ancient Macedonian Language but a Greek dialect" Greek claim

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  • Makedonetz
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2010
    • 1080

    "There is no ancient Macedonian Language but a Greek dialect" Greek claim

    e modern Greeks want to deny the ancient Macedonians their spoken language, then, they need to rewrite the history to suit their version.
    [1] Quintus Curtius Rufus "The History of Alexander"

    "Alexander the Great speaks in front of the Macedones of his army: "The Macedonians are going to judge your case," he said. "Please state whether you will use your native language before them."

    Philotas: "Besides the Macedonians, there are many present who, I think, will find what I am going to say easier to understand if I use the language you yourself have been using, your purpose, I believe, being only to enable more people to understand you."

    Then the king said: "Do you see how offensive Philotas find even his native language? He alone feels an aversion to learning it. But let him speak as he pleases - only remember he as contemptuous of our way of life as he is of our language". [p.138]

    This is Alexander himself talking about "our way of life" and "our language" "Macedonians are going to judge your case" There is no need for any explanation.

    [2] Eugene Borza. "The lesson is clear: the use of the Greek language as a form of written expression does not by itself identify the ethnicity of a culture". ("In the Shadow of Olympus -The Emergence of Macedon", p. 94.)

    "As the Macedonians settled the region following the expulsion of existing peoples, they probably introduced their own customs and language(s); there is no evidence that they adapted any existing language, even though they were now in contact with neighboring populations who spoke a variety of Greek and non-Greek tongues."

    "Hammond's firm conclusion that the Macedonian spoke a distinctive dialect of Aeolic Greek is unconvincing to me, resting as it does on an interpretation of a bit of myth quoted by Hellanicus, who made Aeolus the father of the legendary progenitor Macedon". ("In the Shadow of Olympus" p.92.)

    "The handful of surviving genuine Macedonian words - not loan words from a Greek - do not show the changes expected from a Greek dialect. And even had they changed at some point it is unlikely that they would have reverted to their original form". ("In the Shadow of Olympus" p.93.)

    "As a question of method: why would an area three hundred miles north of Athens - not colonized by Athens - used an Attic dialect, unless it were imported? That is, the Attic dialect could hardly be native, and its use is likely part of the process of Hellenization. To put the question differently: if the native language of the Macedonians is Greek, what is its Macedonian dialect?"

    "On the matter of language, and despite attempts to make Macedonian a dialect of Greek, one must accept the conclusion of linguist R.A.Crossland in the recent CAH, that an insufficient amount of Macedonian has survived to know what language it was".

    [3] Earnst Badian "Stadies in the History of Art vol. 10: Macedonia and Greece In Late Classical and Early Hellenistic Times"

    Regarding the Cleitus' episode, Ernst Badian writes: "He used the only language in which his guards could be addressed".. [Note: The guards could be addressed in Macedonian language.]

    Episode #2. Eumenes of Cardia. In 321 B.C., Greek commander Ambiance, with cavalry and light arms only, faced the Macedonian noble, Neoptholemus, with the Macedonian phalanx. To avoid battle Xennias, a man whose speech was Macedonian, was sent by Eumenes to negotiate with the commander of the phalanx. Badian analyzes:

    "Now, Xennias' name at once shows him to be a Macedonian. Since he was in Ambiance entourage he was presumably a Macedonian of superior status, who spoke both standard Greek and his native language. He was the man who could be trusted to transmit Ambiance' message. This clearly shows that the phalanx had to be addressed in Macedonian, if one wanted to be sure (as Ambiance certainly did) that they would understand. And almost equally interesting - he did not address them himself, as he and other commanders normally address soldiers who understood them, nor did he sent a Greek. The suggestion is surely that Macedonian was the language of the infantry and that Greek was a difficult, indeed a foreign language to them. We may thus take it as certain that, when Alexander used Macedonian in addressing his guards, that too was because it was their normal language, and because (like Ambiance) he had to be sure he would be understood".

    [4] Ulrich Wilcken in his book 'Alexander the Great' on p.22 notes that "linguistic science has at its disposal a very limited quantity of Macedonian words" [Wilken mentions Macedonian and not Greek words]

    [5] "The Tumult and the Shouting: Two Interpretations of the Cleitus Episode", (published by APA in The Ancient History Bulletin, Vol. 10, number 1, 1996) [I will not endeavor myself with "their" Hammond-Bosworth fight, for obvious reasons. What I will do, however, is lift certain references where these giants, specifically, deal/address the ancient Macedonian language in question.]

    [6] p.20, line 23. "Alexander shouted out in Macedonian, and called the hypaspists in Macedonian".

    [7] p.25, line 4. "In my view", writes Bosworth, " there is nothing at all surprising in the use of Macedonian. Alexander was calling his hypaspists, who were Macedonians, and he addressed them in their native language/dialect. In Hammond's view, however, the hypaspists would normally have been addressed in standard Greek. Macedonian proper he restricts to the people of the old kingdom, Lower Macedonian, while the tribes of the mountain districts of Pindus (Upper Macedonia) spoke a dialect of West Greek. The evidence for this hypothesis is decidedly tenuous."

    [8] p.25 elaboration: Bosworth cont. "I deliberately refrain from adopting any position on the linguistic status of ancient Macedonians. It has little significance outside the nationalistic propaganda of the contemporary Balkan states, in which prejudice and dogma do duty for rational thought. What matters for the present argument is the fact, explicit in Curtius, that Macedonian was largely unintelligible to non-Macedonians. Macedonians might understand Greek, and some Greek (like Eumenes) with experience of Macedon might speak Macedonian. However, even Eumenes took care that a vital message was conveyed to the phalangites of Neoptholemus by a man fluent in Macedonian."

    [9] p.30, line 28, we find the final statement by Bosworth: "He used Macedonian because the troops would instantly understand and (he expected) would react immediately. There is no need for more complicated explanation."





    found this site it has some interesting qoutes and scriptures. Dont know the validity of the website if its 100% pro-Macedonian anyone know if they seen this site before and if its usefull to rely on>
    Makedoncite se borat
    za svoite pravdini!

    "The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria,Greece or Serbia can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
    - Goce Delchev
  • Mygdon
    Junior Member
    • May 2009
    • 90

    #2
    ti samo starite pesni gi pejs

    Comment

    • Soldier of Macedon
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 13670

      #3
      Makedonetz, I deleted your other thread where you cite the whole article of some pan-maggot morons. We don't need that sort of trash here.

      Also, Artemi is right. You keep posting (and rather frequently as of late) these old (and some odd) sources which have already been discussed here. Do us a favour and search the MTO forums first and foremost so we don't have so many doubled-up topics, you will find that most of these have been previously raised here. Let's focus on consolidation and quality rather than quantity.
      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

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