Yauna Takabara

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  • Stevce
    Member
    • Jan 2016
    • 200

    Yauna Takabara

    Hi guys, I was looking up the above word and found that Yuana was originally a geographic term and not an ethnic term. That even if Yuana Takabara means Ionaians who wear hats. That there is no real evidence to claim that is how the Persians referred to the Macedonians in ancient times as modern Greeks like to state.

    The first book A companion to ancient Greece page 388 " The word Takabara means wearing shields on their heads, which brings to mind the Macedonian (kausia) hat and Thessalian petasos. The Persian reliefs show Yauna Takabara in board, flat berets that do not look exactly like either hat. Hardly proof for either one.

    The second book The Cambridge History of Iran Volume 2 page 267 states that the evidence does not suffice to show whether or not the Persians regarded the Macedonians at that time as Greeks.
  • Karposh
    Member
    • Aug 2015
    • 863

    #2
    “Yauna Takabara”, the ancient Persian phrase that today’s Greeks love to throw around on various forums to prove the Greek character of the ancient Macedonians. The translation of this phrase is apparently “Greeks who wear shieldlike head coverings” and that Persians used it to refer to Macedonian headwear. According to today’s all-knowing Greeks, they point out that this translation is a clear reference to the ancient Macedonians. The smoking gun here lies in the presumption that the phrase is alluding to the ancient Macedonian slouch hat, the kausia, which Macedonians were known to wear to protect them from the scorching Macedonian summer sun.

    Before I go on, I’ll admit, my Old Persian is a little bit rusty but what is very clear is that the strength of the argument for a reference to the ancient Macedonians lies in the particular way the word Takabara has been interpreted by those espousing this theory. And it is just that, someone’s theory that is trying to make a connection to the famous broad brimmed sun-hats that Macedonians were known to wear.

    The phrase itself comes down to us from an inscription on one of the façades, attributed to Darius I, at the archaeological site Nagsh-e-Rustam, located close to the ruins of the ancient Persian capital of Persepolis. The inscription apparently lists 28 different subject peoples and it is this list that has given rise to the “Aha” moment. The fact that the Yauna are mentioned twice on this list, once by itself and once with the addition of the word Takabara, has been taken to mean that the Persians were referring to the ancient Macedonians in the second case.

    When you break the phrase up into two parts, the first part “Yauna,” is a clear reference to the Ionians, one of four main tribes that Greeks considered themselves divided into. The other three tribes being the Dorians, the Achaeans and the Aeolians. Yauna was the Persian word for Ionia, a region of central-coastal Anatolia, present day Turkey. I do not have a problem with this word. There is no doubt the Persians would have come into contact with the Ionians, or the Yauna, if you like. After all, they occupied the region for centuries. So, Yauna=Ionians=Greeks. That’s fine.

    I do, however, have a problem with the translation for the second part of this phrase, Takabara. I recently picked up a book titled, Alexander the Great at War by Ruth Sheppard and in it I found a completely different translation for this word. Now, either Ruth Sheppard has got it all wrong or, today’s Greeks are trying very hard to draw a longbow in their warped translation of the phrase.

    The Takabara, according to Ruth Sheppard, was the name of the Persian infantry units, so called for the “Taka” a round shield that the Persian army carried. It was made of wood and leather with a segment cut out of the top to give the soldier holding it good vision. Before the Takabara came into existence, during the early days of the Persian Empire, there was the Sparabara. These were designated shield bearing units that carried large rectangular shields known as the “Spara”. The Sparabara operated as archer-pairs. This consisted of an archer protected by a large shield held by a partner. This tactic was further honed to include ten Spara-bearing men in the front line of units while behind, protected by the large rectangular shields, were arrayed the other nine ranks armed with bows and short, curved swords.

    The Persians quickly realised that the men needed greater individual protection and, consequently, the taka and the takabara units were formed.

    So, based on this, the phrase “Yauna Takabara” to me could be better translated as ”Greeks with round shields” and not “the Greeks who wear shieldlike head coverings”. The question needs to be asked, what part of the word Takabara refers to the head or head covering? As pointed out above, it’s not the taka. The taka was a round shield. Perhaps it is bara. I doubt it. Takabara and Sparabara are Persian military terms that refer to infantry units.

    No doubt, the Persians did come into contact with Greeks with round shields. Greeks did indeed carry round shields. How this phrase has been corrupted to mean Greeks wearing sun-hats is beyond me. Actually, it is not beyond me. Obviously, since Macedonians were always Greek, the Persians meant sun-hats or, shieldlike head coverings, if you like, and not round shields when they said “Yauna Takabara” – Greeks who wear sun-hats.

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    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #3
      I thought Takabara was named after Aerosmith's Macedonian version of Walk This Way. ;-)
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Karposh
        Member
        • Aug 2015
        • 863

        #4
        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
        I thought Takabara was named after Aerosmith's Macedonian version of Walk This Way. ;-)
        I didn't want to go there Risto but you started it. In Macedonian "Taka-bara" literally means: "That's how she likes it"

        Comment

        • Stevce
          Member
          • Jan 2016
          • 200

          #5
          Thanks for the info Karposh, will look into that book.

          Comment

          • Epirot
            Member
            • Mar 2010
            • 399

            #6
            Well...the "takabara" which Persians referred to was the famous Macedonia 'kausia', their particular cap which was worn during Asiatic expedition. Yet there is no example of its usage in Greece, so many scholars tend to believe that it was 'invented' for military purposes but this line of reasoning falls short of convincing (at least for me). To my humble opinion, its origin must be traced down further north, in Illyria. The Illyrian tribe of Daorsi, which used to dwell on central Bosnia, wore a similar cap as it is evidenced from archaeological findings. just a small contribution of mine...
            IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!

            Comment

            • Karposh
              Member
              • Aug 2015
              • 863

              #7
              Originally posted by Epirot View Post
              Well...the "takabara" which Persians referred to was the famous Macedonia 'kausia', their particular cap which was worn during Asiatic expedition. Yet there is no example of its usage in Greece, so many scholars tend to believe that it was 'invented' for military purposes but this line of reasoning falls short of convincing (at least for me). To my humble opinion, its origin must be traced down further north, in Illyria. The Illyrian tribe of Daorsi, which used to dwell on central Bosnia, wore a similar cap as it is evidenced from archaeological findings. just a small contribution of mine...
              I really don’t get what you’re trying to say Epirot. From what I can make out, you believe that the takabara literally refers to the famous Macedonian kausia and that scholars have ‘invented’ a military usage for this headwear but that this is less than convincing because there is no example of its usage in Greece. Who ever suggested (scholars or otherwise) that the Macedonian kausia was invented for military purposes? What military purpose could a sun-hat possibly perform?

              Besides your muddled up and confused logic above, I have a couple of other issues with what your saying:

              1. Unless you have some knowledge in Old Persian yourself or read somewhere from someone who does have some experience in this ancient language then just repeating the supposed meaning of the term ‘takabara’ doesn’t make it so. This isn’t a forum for repeating half truths in the hope that it eventually becomes truth. You need to back it up with references from reputable experts in their field. I say half truths because it is commonly accepted that the taka, in the word takabara, means a round shield. But that’s as far as it goes. As far as I know, no part of the rest of the word refers to head or head-covering. As I stated in my earlier post, and I have referenced the book from where I received this information, the takabara is a purely military term that refers to the ancient Persian infantry units that carried round shields. The Sparabara, preceded the Takabara, who carried large, rectangular shields, the spara – hence the term, Sparabara. The ‘Yauna Takabara’ were Greeks (Ionians) who carried round shields and not Greeks with shield-like head coverings. That is just a theory, hashed up by some for propaganda purposes. I’m no expert in ancient languages and couldn’t tell you if Old Persian has completely died out or whether it is still kept alive at university level like, say, ancient Aramaic, for example, where one could go and make enquiries to see whether there is more to this word than simply a Persian infantry unit. So, unless you can give me definitive proof for the translation of the word takabara, from someone who has an understanding of or is an authority on Old Persian, then, I’m sorry, it is in fact your reasoning that falls short of convincing.

              2. Why is it so important to you that takabara translates to sun-hats? Is it because you believe the term kausia to be an Albanian term? How does that help your cause? Does that mean that deep down, you believe yourself to be descended from the ancient Greeks? After all, the whole premise of the argument for “Greeks wearing shield-like head coverings” is that the Persians didn’t know the name of the people they were trying to describe (?) but they knew of the Greek language so they coined the term, Yauna takabara. According to this argument, these were Greek speaking people who wore shield-like head coverings.

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