Macedonian Patriotic Organization

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  • Phoenix
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 4671

    #91
    Originally posted by Buktop View Post
    Good for you, and I am sorry but it isn't a secret how UMD makes decisions.

    From the discussions we have had on these forums Vangelovski, I can only say I am glad that you left UMD. I don't see how anyone can work with someone who is so unreasonable.
    Buktop, what's so "unreasonable" about questioning the UMD or any other organization that represents the Macedonian people...

    You're possibly the biggest, (besides Maknews himself) defender of everything UMD...lets face it, they (UMD) are far from perfect, they're a very young organization, perhaps even inexperienced compared to many of the other organizations and they (UMD) have already managed to accumulate a long list of questionable statements, direction and affiliations in their short 4 year existence but you prefer to blindly follow...sorry mate but it doesn't work that way.

    The history of the Macedonian people is littered with unquestioning followers, with people putting a blind faith into the hands of others and of an overriding obligation of subservience to others, we have to break this never ending cycle of self destruction.

    Today Macedonia stands in a precarious position, we can't afford to be sending out mixed messages to anybody...we must be assertive and uncompromising, our direction should be guided by a steely focus and everybody has to push in the same direction for us to succeed.
    There just isn't room for a softly, softly approach to survival...

    Comment

    • TajnataKniga
      Member
      • Dec 2009
      • 196

      #92
      does anyone have a copy of UMD's constitution? is anyone a member here who can share the document with us?

      Comment

      • Buktop
        Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 934

        #93
        Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
        Buktop, I could reveal a lot about UMD policy making, but its not really relevant (unless you're a UMD member and then you should be really concerned) - you were the one making false claims, so I was just wondering where you were getting your information from.
        What's holding you back? Reveal it then, Inquiring minds want to know...
        "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

        Never once say you walk upon your final way
        though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
        Our long awaited hour will draw near
        and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

        Comment

        • Vangelovski
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 8531

          #94
          Originally posted by Buktop View Post
          What's holding you back? Reveal it then, Inquiring minds want to know...
          Thing about it Buktop, what should a democratically governed section 501 charitable organisation be doing every now and then...say on an annual or biannual (two yearly) basis?
          Last edited by Vangelovski; 01-05-2010, 10:26 PM.
          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

          Comment

          • makgerman
            Member
            • Nov 2009
            • 145

            #95
            I did some quick research also and unfortunately the MPO seems to be Pro-Bulgarian.

            Having it's main website linking to Pro-Bulgarian websites is enough to doubt MPO's real mission/cause.

            Such links include:
            HTML Code:
            http://www.youtube.com/user/MacedonianPO
            http://www.macedonia-science.org/page.php?7
            http://macedonia-science.org/page.php?127 
            and many more
            Other things I find interesting are:
            • They refer to Macedonian surnames with "..effs" or "..offs"
            • Greece and Serbia have been criticised many times(which I have nothing against) yet rarely do they comment on the way the Bulgarians treat the Macedonians in Bulgaria

            Comment

            • Buktop
              Member
              • Oct 2009
              • 934

              #96
              Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
              Buktop, what's so "unreasonable" about questioning the UMD or any other organization that represents the Macedonian people...

              You're possibly the biggest, (besides Maknews himself) defender of everything UMD...lets face it, they (UMD) are far from perfect, they're a very young organization, perhaps even inexperienced compared to many of the other organizations and they (UMD) have already managed to accumulate a long list of questionable statements, direction and affiliations in their short 4 year existence but you prefer to blindly follow...sorry mate but it doesn't work that way.

              The history of the Macedonian people is littered with unquestioning followers, with people putting a blind faith into the hands of others and of an overriding obligation of subservience to others, we have to break this never ending cycle of self destruction.

              Today Macedonia stands in a precarious position, we can't afford to be sending out mixed messages to anybody...we must be assertive and uncompromising, our direction should be guided by a steely focus and everybody has to push in the same direction for us to succeed.
              There just isn't room for a softly, softly approach to survival...
              Phoenix, my comment about Vangelovski being unreasonable is concerning our previous debates and my assessment of his character, not his questions concerning UMD.

              Read my previous posts, I have no problem with questioning UMD, I am just stating my opinion. Why is it so wrong for me to support UMD? Why are you portraying those who criticize as victims of blind followers?

              On your final point, see my posts in the Macedonian Cause thread because this is exactly what I am talking about when I say the difference in approach causes the argument, everyone agrees on the goals.
              "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

              Never once say you walk upon your final way
              though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
              Our long awaited hour will draw near
              and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15658

                #97
                Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                everyone agrees on the goals.
                Not everyone Buktop.
                As an example, the UMD have not agreed with them yet.
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • TajnataKniga
                  Member
                  • Dec 2009
                  • 196

                  #98
                  last name

                  Originally posted by makgerman View Post
                  I did some quick research also and unfortunately the MPO seems to be Pro-Bulgarian.

                  Having it's main website linking to Pro-Bulgarian websites is enough to doubt MPO's real mission/cause.

                  Such links include:
                  HTML Code:
                  http://www.youtube.com/user/MacedonianPO
                  http://www.macedonia-science.org/page.php?7
                  http://macedonia-science.org/page.php?127 
                  and many more
                  Other things I find interesting are:
                  • They refer to Macedonian surnames with "..effs" or "..offs"
                  • Greece and Serbia have been criticised many times(which I have nothing against) yet rarely do they comment on the way the Bulgarians treat the Macedonians in Bulgaria
                  my last name ends in -off, does that make me bulgarian? i'm macedonian to the bone my friend.

                  Comment

                  • Vangelovski
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 8531

                    #99
                    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                    Not everyone Buktop.
                    As an example, the UMD have not agreed with them yet.
                    RtG, is there a consolidated list on here of the goals?
                    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                    Comment

                    • Buktop
                      Member
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 934

                      Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                      Thing about it Buktop, what should a democratically governed section 501 charitable organisation be doing every now and then...say on an annual or biannual (two yearly) basis?
                      Are you talking about legally required activities as a 501(c)(3) charitable organization or just an expected disclosure of some sort?
                      "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                      Never once say you walk upon your final way
                      though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                      Our long awaited hour will draw near
                      and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                      Comment

                      • Buktop
                        Member
                        • Oct 2009
                        • 934

                        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                        Not everyone Buktop.
                        As an example, the UMD have not agreed with them yet.
                        Sorry RtG, typo, I meant to say most.
                        "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                        Never once say you walk upon your final way
                        though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                        Our long awaited hour will draw near
                        and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                        Comment

                        • Vangelovski
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 8531

                          Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                          Are you talking about legally required activities as a 501(c)(3) charitable organization or just an expected disclosure of some sort?
                          I'm not talking about disclosures - I'm talking about governance and policy making - isn't that what the conversation was about?
                          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                          Comment

                          • Prolet
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2009
                            • 5241

                            Tajnata Kinga, Its ov or ev its Goce Delcev not Gotse Deltcheff

                            What about those offices? I'd rather one office spreading the right message than a thousand offices spreading the wrong message.

                            I havn't been a part of UMD for two years, so I'm no longer familiar with their financial situation.
                            Vangelovski, True however you surly had information about how the organization was going to be financed its a long term plan, they dont survive on the amount of members they have surly. Metodija said in an interview that they had just over 4000 members and over 50,000 supporters world wide.

                            Prolet, the parishoners of these churches were ordinary Macedonians like you and me. You couldn't just build a church, you needed a patron. The villages that these people came from probably had a Bulgarian church to begin with. Hence the affiliation.
                            El Bre, Spolaj Ti we had a similar problem before when we lost our church Sveti Kiril i Metodij to the Bulgarians, we also lost a church to the Serbs so enough is enough.
                            МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                            Comment

                            • Risto the Great
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 15658

                              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                              RtG, is there a consolidated list on here of the goals?
                              I am not sure I understand what you mean Vangelovski.
                              Here is the subject of our ongoing focus of late:
                              This thread is solely devoted to our combined efforts in defining the Macedonian Cause. Please post your feedback, additions and changes in this thread. The moderators will edit this first post to include your changes until we have all agreed on a complete, perfect, unwavering and timeless definition of the Macedonian Cause. --
                              Risto the Great
                              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                              Comment

                              • Vangelovski
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 8531

                                Originally posted by Prolet View Post
                                Tajnata Kinga, Its ov or ev its Goce Delcev not Gotse Deltcheff



                                Vangelovski, True however you surly had information about how the organization was going to be financed its a long term plan, they dont survive on the amount of members they have surly. Metodija said in an interview that they had just over 4000 members and over 50,000 supporters world wide.



                                El Bre, Spolaj Ti we had a similar problem before when we lost our church Sveti Kiril i Metodij to the Bulgarians, we also lost a church to the Serbs so enough is enough.
                                I think Meto is way overstating UMDs membership and support. New funding from outside sources can come along at any stage. UMD certainly did not have that type of funding while I was there.
                                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                                Comment

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