Macedonian Patriotic Organization

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    Good points TajnataKniga.
    Macedonia has terrorists inside Macedonia.
    It has been confirmed the USA helped those terrorists to escape. The USA was instrumental in reducing Macedonia to something less than a sovereign nation as a result of the Ohrid Framework Agreement.
    Why on Earth would Macedonia feel compelled to assist USA with its interference elsewhere when the USA track record in Macedonia has been so dismal?
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • Buktop
      Member
      • Oct 2009
      • 934

      Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
      Buktop, one colourful descriptive phrase that's missing is BULLSHIT ARTIST because apart from "fence sitter" i haven't called you any of those horrible things but if the shoe fits, you're welcome to it cinderella


      Climb down from the moral highground before your symptoms of altitude illness get worse...



      I've already commented on what in my opinion constitutes a proper press release, one that accurately conveys the feelings of the majority of the diaspora, take the time to read the press releases from an organization like AMHRC and their partner organizations in Canada.
      Their messages aren't lost in translation or in a sea of ambiguity, their language is both strong and direct.
      UMD often give the impression that Macedonia's interests are second to those of America or their criticism of the Europeans is watered down to the point of losing its urgency.

      But in relation to the UMD press release where they "applaud" the sending of Macedonian troops to Afghanistan it is the most unfortunate and disgraceful use of the English language that I have ever seen...
      Phoenix, I am not going to waste my time going back through all your posts directed towards me and pick out the countless insults because it would take me at least 3 days to make that list.

      Rather than state your disapproval of UMD statements, get off your lazy ass and go write your own articles, send them to UMD and do something other than whining and bitching.

      I do not claim to be on the moral high ground, I am not the one trying to discredit an opposing argument through abusive language. I am trying to encourage action from those who find it easy to criticize from their computer chairs and who have no intention of helping to work to solve the issues that exist. I hope you are attending the UMD meetings next month, maybe then you can move on with your life.
      "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

      Never once say you walk upon your final way
      though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
      Our long awaited hour will draw near
      and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

      Comment

      • Vangelovski
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 8531

        Originally posted by Buktop View Post
        So you are alluding to elections? Perhaps once membership and the number of volunteer's increase they could have elections.

        As of this moment, they have UMD workshops and community meetings, this in addition to the e-mail suggestions helps UMD gauge the sentiments of the diaspora. But if those who have concerns and complaints actually made an effort to go to these workshops, I am sure we would be singing a different tune right now.
        Buktop, you're a classic cheerleader and apologist...Meto claims to have 4000 members - how many more do you need? Democratic elections are absolutely essential for all organisations regardless of size - its considered a community standard and a legal requirement in most democratic states. At the moment, UMD doesn't even represent its members, let alone anyone else, but its happy to collect membership fees and speak on behalf of ALL Macedonians. Taxation without representation.
        Last edited by Vangelovski; 01-06-2010, 06:21 PM.
        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

        Comment

        • Buktop
          Member
          • Oct 2009
          • 934

          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
          Good points TajnataKniga.
          Macedonia has terrorists inside Macedonia.
          It has been confirmed the USA helped those terrorists to escape. The USA was instrumental in reducing Macedonia to something less than a sovereign nation as a result of the Ohrid Framework Agreement.
          Why on Earth would Macedonia feel compelled to assist USA with its interference elsewhere when the USA track record in Macedonia has been so dismal?
          It is not so much helping the USA as it is helping them realize that Macedonia is an important asset, giving us a level of clout that would influence decisions coming out of Washington to be more favorable towards Macedonians. I scratch your back you scratch mine. As of yet, no Macedonian soldiers have died, they have been highly decorated and are revered by their fellow coalition soldiers. Not only that, but it is an opportunity to train for urban guerrilla warfare. The skills that the Macedonian soldiers will bring back from Afghanistan are vital for the defense of Macedonia against similar tactics used by Albanian insurgents. The recent Mountain Storm campaign that proved to be a huge success utilized tactics and training brought back from Afghanistan.

          I view Macedonia sending troops to Afghanistan as a PR move, as well as a military training exercise, so either way it is beneficial to us.
          "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

          Never once say you walk upon your final way
          though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
          Our long awaited hour will draw near
          and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            Originally posted by Buktop View Post
            I view Macedonia sending troops to Afghanistan as a PR move, as well as a military training exercise, so either way it is beneficial to us.
            Do you applaud it?
            I viewed it in almost a similar manner but, as a Diaspora Macedonian, I want to call in the benefits of the PR exercise. I don't want the USA to say "we will call Macedonia whatever is agreed through the negotiation process". I think Macedonia has earned the right to far better treatment. Most Macedonians in Crazyland Australia feel the same way.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • TajnataKniga
              Member
              • Dec 2009
              • 196

              has the US said they "will call Macedonia whatever is agreed through the negotiation process?" can you provide a source?

              Comment

              • Buktop
                Member
                • Oct 2009
                • 934

                Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                Buktop, you're a classic cheerleader and apologist...Meto claims to have 4000 members - how many more do you need? Democratic elections are absolutely essential for all organisations regardless of size - its considered a community standard and a legal requirement in most democratic states. At the moment, UMD doesn't even represent its members, let alone anyone else, but its happy to collect membership fees and speak on behalf of ALL Macedonians. Taxation without representation.
                What are the workshops for? What are the community meetings for? What is the e-mail for? Consider these events as shareholder meetings.

                Charitable organizations are not required to have elections. Consider UMD as an organization, here we have the board members who are the CEO's and they act on behalf of the shareholders i.e. members. The difficult thing about this situation is that not only are the members in UMD given consideration, but those Macedonians who are not members and contributors are given consideration as well. This is where lines get blurred.


                I don't know what the non-profit incorporation guidelines are in Australia, but it doesn't say anything about required elections.
                "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                Never once say you walk upon your final way
                though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                Our long awaited hour will draw near
                and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                Comment

                • TajnataKniga
                  Member
                  • Dec 2009
                  • 196

                  question

                  Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                  Good points TajnataKniga.
                  Macedonia has terrorists inside Macedonia.
                  It has been confirmed the USA helped those terrorists to escape. The USA was instrumental in reducing Macedonia to something less than a sovereign nation as a result of the Ohrid Framework Agreement.
                  Why on Earth would Macedonia feel compelled to assist USA with its interference elsewhere when the USA track record in Macedonia has been so dismal?
                  confirmed by whom Risto? the germans?

                  US track record in macedonia has been dismal? in what way? who is the biggest friend of macedonia? how much money has macedonia gotten from the US?

                  Comment

                  • Vangelovski
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 8531

                    Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                    What are the workshops for? What are the community meetings for? What is the e-mail for? Consider these events as shareholder meetings.

                    Charitable organizations are not required to have elections. Consider UMD as an organization, here we have the board members who are the CEO's and they act on behalf of the shareholders i.e. members. The difficult thing about this situation is that not only are the members in UMD given consideration, but those Macedonians who are not members and contributors are given consideration as well. This is where lines get blurred.


                    I don't know what the non-profit incorporation guidelines are in Australia, but it doesn't say anything about required elections.
                    Buktop, you can and will defend UMD, but without regular elections where all members can stand for election and vote, UMD isn't fooling anyone except you.
                    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                    Comment

                    • Vangelovski
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 8531

                      Originally posted by TajnataKniga View Post
                      confirmed by whom Risto? the germans?

                      US track record in macedonia has been dismal? in what way? who is the biggest friend of macedonia? how much money has macedonia gotten from the US?
                      If you're going to make a sweeping statement like the "US is Macedonia's biggest friend", at least state why you believe that to be true.
                      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                      Comment

                      • TajnataKniga
                        Member
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 196

                        vangelovski, since you were one of the co-founders how did UMD start? did you help draft the constitution? how were the current officers elected? were you part of those elections? what title did you hold in UMD?

                        Comment

                        • Buktop
                          Member
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 934

                          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                          Do you applaud it?
                          I viewed it in almost a similar manner but, as a Diaspora Macedonian, I want to call in the benefits of the PR exercise. I don't want the USA to say "we will call Macedonia whatever is agreed through the negotiation process". I think Macedonia has earned the right to far better treatment. Most Macedonians in Crazyland Australia feel the same way.
                          What's Crazyland Australia?

                          Well if you remember around the NATO summit in 08, the USA was pushing full throttle for our acceptance, then after the Greek Veto, the US signed a special cooperation agreement with Macedonia, the details of post agreement dealings are yet to be disclosed, probably for good reason. We have seen closer ties with Turkey militarily and diplomatically, and we have seen many other NATO members warming up to the idea of Macedonia as a pro-Western entity.

                          In the past 6 months we have seen EU and NATO member nations beginning to be more vocal in their disapproval of Greek policy, they will fall out of the lime light and Macedonia will be in a position to capitalize.
                          "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                          Never once say you walk upon your final way
                          though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                          Our long awaited hour will draw near
                          and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                          Comment

                          • Buktop
                            Member
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 934

                            Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                            Buktop, you can and will defend UMD, but without regular elections where all members can stand for election and vote, UMD isn't fooling anyone except you.
                            Show me valid regulations that state they must have elections. Show me how UMD workshops and community meetings are not a form of representation. You are the one making the accusations, feel free to provide proof at any time...
                            "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                            Never once say you walk upon your final way
                            though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                            Our long awaited hour will draw near
                            and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                            Comment

                            • TajnataKniga
                              Member
                              • Dec 2009
                              • 196

                              vangelovski, read the background note on macedonia, I just read http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/26759.htm and it will explain why the US is a biggest friend to macedonia. what other country is macedonia's top friend besides turkey? australia? can you boost that australia has helped macedonia? i sure cant.

                              didnt the US help macedonia become the first wireless country in the world?
                              didnt the US recognize macedonia by macedonia's true name, and no other name?

                              oh ya go Obama!!

                              YouTube - Obama about Macedonia

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13670

                                Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                                Show me valid regulations that state they must have elections. Show me how UMD workshops and community meetings are not a form of representation. You are the one making the accusations, feel free to provide proof at any time...
                                Buktop, After a number of years in existence, boasting a membership of 4,000 plus, several board members at the executive level, etc, do you not think that the UMD should have presidential elections?

                                Do you think Meto is willing to take a 'lesser' role in the UMD, and have somebody else that is democratically elected assume the presidency?
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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