Turkey & China: alternative for Macedonia?

[Onur]

With the production of "Anka" after the U.S. and Israel, Turkey became the third country in the world which produces unmanned aircraft.

Actually it`second in the world cuz US and Israeli engineers did first one together but Turkey did it without getting any help from them. Already, since Gaza flotilla incident, Turkey halted all joint military operations with Israel.

It`s the first fruit of our campaign called "Return to your homeland" by the Scientific and Technological Research Council of Turkey. There was 100s of Turkish scientists working in NASA and several other institutions in USA. They were immigrated to USA at 1990s but they are returning to Turkey. For example only last month, about 60 Turkish scientists and scholars returned to Turkey from USA and France to work in our own institutions.

Originally Posted by Prolet

This is a good analysis by Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan

Erdogan: Greece's Imaginary Enemies Cost them their country

Germans and French was giving some amount of free money to Greece and then, they were getting their money back from them by selling military equipments. With this way, they were rising Greece`s debt to them by securing it`s vassal position in the future and contributing the development of their own military engineering and manufacturing companies at the same time. To be able to realize this, they needed to create a Turkish bugaboo upon Greek people. This was also profitable for Greek politicians(already there aren't many of them) cuz Turkish bugaboo also makes Papandreu and/or Karamanlis to get more votes in the elections.

This was some kind of downward spiral for them. It was bad for regular Greek people but VERY GOOD for EU and Greek politicians.

[George S.]

Greece is spending all that money on defence against nobody except it's paranoia.All that money has been wasted not only on defence but on domestic matters.To say it's stupid is an understatement as these morons squandered 200 billion euros !

[Onur]

It seems that Israeli people are worried about our cooperation with China. An article from Haaretz, Israeli media;

Growing ties between Turkey, China, Iran worry Israel and U.S

Turkey held military drill with China, after canceling with Israel; cooperation also reflected in weapons deals, with Iran buying from China mainly missile technology.

The United States and Israel are watching with concern the growing military cooperation among Turkey, China and Iran, especially following a joint Turkish-Chinese air-force exercise last week.

Until two years ago Israel was Turkey's main partner for air combat training.

In 2001 the Turkish air force inaugurated a tactical air warfare center in Konya with Israel and the United States.

Until 2008 the Israel Air Force was a frequent guest in Turkey's sky and a regular participant in the country's big annual exercise, Anatolian Eagle.

In the wake of Operation Cast Lead and the subsequent deterioration of bilateral relations Turkey last year revoked Israel's participation in the maneuvers. The United States decided not to take part in the exercise this year because of that decision. A number of other NATO members followed suit.

Turkey replaced the Israel Air Force with its Chinese counterpart. China sent Sukhoi SU-27 fighter aircraft and pilots to train with Turkey's F-16 fighters. In the past these exercises were held in relatively openness, but last week they were held covertly, with only a brief report appearing in the Turkish media after the exercise.

The West has been watching the changes in the Chinese army's structure, and especially the long-range naval and aerial exercises that indicate Beijing's intention to acquire the ability to conduct warfare far from China's borders.

The Chinese are also aggressively pursuing cyber warfare capabilities, employing some 60,000 hackers at it, according to foreign intelligence reports.

The developing ties among Turkey, Iran and China are also reflected in weapons deals, with Iran buying from China mainly missile technology.

The C-802 antiship missile fired by Hezbollah in the Second Lebanon War at the Israel Navy's Hanit missile boat was manufactured in Iran with Chinese technology.

China has also developed a surface-to-surface rocket-launching system together with Turkey. China's Prime Minister Wen Jiabao is due to visit Ankara this month and to sign several bilateral cooperation agreements.

Turkey and China are also involved in projects to build oil pipelines from Iran.

Another reason for the close relations between the two states is that China, as a permanent member of the United Nations Security Council, has been in the forefront of opposition to imposing harsher sanctions on Iran in connection to the Islamic state's nuclear program.


* Published 07.10.2010

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...d-u-s-1.317583

Actually, current situation between Israel and Turkey saddens me cuz we never had any problem with them throughout history. Even during the last years of Ottoman Empire and first years of new Turkey they were fully supporting us. This basically makes them the only supportive minority among us during our dark times. Already ~10% of current Israel citizens are the Jews who gone from Turkey and most of them speaks Turkish. First two Israeli PMs in 1950s was ex-Turkish Jews too. We always fully cooperated with them in developing military technology, Jewish and Turkish engineers was always working together here.

But it looks like that current dark clouds between us wont disappear unless both ruling parties in Israel and Turkey changes.

[Onur]

Chinese premier is in Turkey atm and today, both PMs announced that both Turkey and China will abandon using US dollars currency in bilateral relations between them and they gonna use Turkish lira and Chinese yuan from now on. Thats quite interesting news!

Also, they agreed on construction of a railway for super fast trains between China and Turkey, passing by Turkic states and Iran on the road to revive the ancient trade route between east and west called "Silk road".

Turkey, China to use lira/yuan for bilateral trade

Turkey and China will use their currencies, the lira and the yuan, in bilateral relations Turkey's Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday after holding talks with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao.

Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said "In all of our relations, we have agreed to use the lira and yuan," Erdogan told reporters.

Oct 8 (Reuters)

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSIST00727220101008

Turkey targets $50 bln China trade in next 5 years

Turkey aims to raise trade with China to $50 billion from a current $17 billion over the next five years, Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said on Friday at a joint news conference with visiting Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao.

Erdogan also said energy cooperation on nuclear power will form part of the burgeoning trade with China. He said the two countries had agreed to use their lira and yuan currencies for bilateral trade.

Oct 8 (Reuters)

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSIST00727120101008

But there was a quite big protestations in both Istanbul and Ankara against Chinese delegation because of the Chinese oppression to Uyghur Turkic community in China.

[Bratot]

What could I add to this, we could only benefit from the both countries.

[fyrOM]

The biggest looser in this sounds like the usa and the usa dollar. One big reason why the usa dollar is strong and hence affords the usa a better lifestyle is that every time someone wants to buy something from another country they first have to buy usa dollars although the Euro has cut into this. But if you eliminate both currencies from the trade as Turkey and China are planning to do it could influence all the countries in between. Less demand foe the usa dollar will see it getting weaker. A very good strategic move by both countries.

[Prolet]

Turkish Delegation from the council of Europe supports Macedonia on our name

http://kanal5.com.mk/default.aspx?mI...&eventId=65746

[fyrOM]

Originally Posted by Onur

It seems that Israeli people are worried about our cooperation with China. An article from Haaretz, Israeli media;

Actually, current situation between Israel and Turkey saddens me cuz we never had any problem with them throughout history. Even during the last years of Ottoman Empire and first years of new Turkey they were fully supporting us.

Onur how things change…a very strange development between Israel and Greece.

Military exercise of Greek and Israeli air force in the Peloponnese

http://www.idividi.com.mk/vesti/balk...664/index.html

Athens, October 8, 2010 (Reuters) - Greek-Israeli voenovozduhoplovna exercise will be held from 11 to 14 October in the western Peloponnese and in the airspace over the island of Crete.

The exercise is part of Minoas 2010 "that began in May in Crete, but was interrupted by the attack on izraleskite commandos on May 31 for humanitarian konvoz Gaza Strip. The attack killed nine Turkish activists, and the ship there were Greek activists.

In exercise of the Greek side will feature eight helicopters - three Black Hawk "UH-60 and three" Apache. "

Back when the humanitarian ships for Gaza were attacked I said something strange is happening in Turkey for the government to allow these ships to leave Turkish ports. It looked like then that the government is under pressure from somewhere to look eastwards probably by the same forces who want to change Turkey not to be a secular state. The fact the exercises between Israel and Greece were planed for back then means the climate had changed much earlier just not shown out in the public yet.

[fyrOM]

Couple this post with post016 and you can start seeing a really dark picture for the usa dollar. Dark pictures will make the usa nervous but can they dare anything against China.

World financiers warn of possible "currency war"

http://www.idividi.com.mk/Biznis/Sve...515/index.html

Washington, October 7, 2010 (Reuters) - The first global financiers warn that tensions between the countries about the value of their currencies to a greater risk on the fragile global economy.

On the eve of a meeting of IMF and World Bank in Washington from 8 to 10 October, leaders of both institutions said that the conflict between China and the U.S. over the value of the Chinese yuan could become a serious economic problem.

World Bank President Robert Zoellick said that tensions over currency could jeopardize investor confidence at a time when the world turns to the private sector in the hope that it will accelerate economic growth, transferred agencies.

Fears of a possible international "currency war" contributed to weaken the dollar today a new eight-month minimum against the euro.

[Onur]

Originally Posted by OziMak

Onur how things change…a very strange development between Israel and Greece.

It`s just you know Israel is a paranoid state and they have a reason for that cuz they are surrounded with enemies all around them. Military training is so important for them. Especially long distance flights for their pilots and it`s impossible to do that in tiny Israeli state. They were doing their pilot training in Turkey`s airfield for decades but they cant since 2008 as the haaretz article states above. So, Israel rushed to the Greece as a last option to be able to continue their army`s training program and Greeks accepted them even tough Greece and Israel never had close relationship b4. Probably Greeks are doing this to gain some kind of advantage from Turkish-Israeli tension, dunno.

Back when the humanitarian ships for Gaza were attacked I said something strange is happening in Turkey for the government to allow these ships to leave Turkish ports. It looked like then that the government is under pressure from somewhere to look eastwards probably by the same forces who want to change Turkey not to be a secular state. The fact the exercises between Israel and Greece were planed for back then means the climate had changed much earlier just not shown out in the public yet.

Yes, it was so strange and very suspicious. Millions of people in Turkey still wondering how and why Erdogan`s government allowed them to set sail. It was obvious that Israel was always very paranoid on these issues but i believe they expected some kind of reaction from Israel but no one probably expected them to kill people on international waters.

There are dozens of different rumors about how and why Israel-Turkey relations got worse but we don't know which one is the truth yet. I am sure about one thing tough; Some international lobby/state/group wants Turkish-Israeli relations to get worse.