Macedonian Knights of Death

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  • Onur
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2010
    • 2389

    #16
    Originally posted by Serdarot View Post
    i can understand it is not so easy to realise and to admit that your own nation commited crimes, but hey, if the Turks werenīt so cruel, maybe EU would be begging US to join the Ottoman Empire in the last 20 years

    i hope you get the point
    I am honest enough to declare what is terror and what is not, no matter who did it. If Ottoman authorities did similar stuff, yes that was terror too but i don't know if you realize that you are asking from me to declare Ottoman government`s actions as terrorism while you strictly deny to do same for your own??? You ask me to say what you don't.






    Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
    A product of their time, but it sounds like retaliation to me. How many Christian churches were burned by Ottoman Muslims in Macedonia, before these Macedonians decided to give some back? Who is the real terrorist here, Onur - Macedonians or Ottomans?
    Retaliation? I don't think that 200 people in mosque was responsible for something against Macedonians. Besides that, nothing can be an excuse for bombing 200 innocent people. If thats what happened then this is simply terror, nothing else. While i tell you that if Ottoman government did the same, then it was terror too but it`s clear that you guys are hesitant to say that if it`s done by your people.

    Well, imho, it was probably done by Sofia or Athens but you wanna get the credit for the bombing of 200 people exclusively for Macedonia anyway. Not that i am hesitant to blame Macedonians for that but i still think that it was Athens or Sofia`s business cuz terror would help their aim in those times. Also, quite possibly that half of the killings and massacres blamed on to the Turks was actually done by Athens, Sofia and Belgrade. Like Germanos Karavangelis said that he hired dozens of assassins to kill all the non-Greek speaking clergy in Macedonia.


    Nevertheless, I must say that your analogy is clearly wrong! If we accept your idea, then Al-Qaida attacks, Palestine suicide bombs are patriotism too.


    Btw, i don't have any intention to argue about an incident of 100 years ago. What i am talking about is your hesitation to differentiate terrorism with patriotism. Terror is still not a good thing if it`s your own. Terror is terror no matter who does.
    Last edited by Onur; 12-08-2010, 02:02 PM.

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    • Bratot
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 2855

      #17
      Althought there is no universal deffinition of a "terrorism", a group of people can have many different reasons or motives for their acts and while for someone they are freedom fighters for others they are terrorists.

      "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter"

      Nowadays this term has gained mostly negative conotation, but we shouldn't look at the events from our past through the deffinitions given by FBI or CNN.

      We don't know who exactly was in the mosque that time, we only rely on these media reports, which could also distort the truth.

      It is very usual that one who has risked or sacrificed his life for our Macedonian movement is our hero and will be noted for his courage.
      As it is normal the same person to be perceived as a terrorist by the Ottoman authorities for promoting the interests of an ethnic or religious group that is being oppressed by those authorities.

      Using disproportional violence by such revolutionery groups is because the enemy armies are too strong, with the hope that will cause a pressure on the government to change their policy, to atract international attention etc. etc.

      It is all a matter of means and capacity not of ideology.
      The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

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      • Serdarot
        Member
        • Feb 2010
        • 605

        #18
        Originally posted by Onur View Post
        I am honest enough to declare what is terror and what is not, no matter who did it. If Ottoman authorities did similar stuff, yes that was terror too but i don't know if you realize that you are asking from me to declare Ottoman government`s actions as terrorism while you strictly deny to do same for your own??? You ask me to say what you don't.
        i donīt ask you to admit or declare something, m8

        i simply pointed that "tnx to the cruelty of the authorities, the ppl were driven to take extreme measures"

        as much i know, Macedonian fighters never attacked some Muslim or non-Macedonian villages, killing innocent/unarmed people (specialy woman and children)

        and iīve read better the text on the picture earlier (i missed the mosque part in the first read...). it is wrong to target civilians in a religious object, no excuses about that... (no metter how oft the Turks or someone else burned our Churches / people before that)

        about this specific incident - i have to get some more info before i continue to write about it.

        it is hard to believe, both things, bombing Solunīs street and killing 2 000 people on it, and bombing a Mosque...

        most of the Mosques were build on Destroed Churches, or simply beside the Church was build the minaret, and the Church was turned into Mosque. So to repeat myself, it is hard to believe such thing, i need more info...
        Last edited by Serdarot; 12-08-2010, 03:54 PM.
        Bratot:
        Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.

        Comment

        • Onur
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2010
          • 2389

          #19
          Originally posted by Serdarot View Post
          about this specific incident - i have to get some more info before i continue to write about it.

          it is hard to believe, both things, bombing Solunīs street and killing 2 000 people on it, and bombing a Mosque...

          most of the Mosques were build on Destroed Churches, or simply beside the Church was build the minaret, and the Church was turned into Mosque. So to repeat myself, it is hard to believe such thing, i need more info...
          Just leave it mate. It`s no use anymore. Salonika is in Greece now and neither Macedonians nor Turks lives in it anymore. So all that was for nothing in the end.

          Just like i said above, i wish someone bold enough to abolish the empire would come up earlier than 1920, so we wouldn't live up to that point.

          I also agree Bratot above.

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            #20
            Originally posted by Onur
            Retaliation? I don't think that 200 people in mosque was responsible for something against Macedonians. Besides that, nothing can be an excuse for bombing 200 innocent people. If thats what happened then this is simply terror, nothing else. While i tell you that if Ottoman government did the same, then it was terror too but it`s clear that you guys are hesitant to say that if it`s done by your people.
            I am not hesitant about it. This was carried out by Macedonians. It is not about seeking credit.
            Nevertheless, I must say that your analogy is clearly wrong! If we accept your idea, then Al-Qaida attacks, Palestine suicide bombs are patriotism too.
            If anything is 'wrong', it is the disproportionate amount of terror the Macedonians received from the Ottomans. Onur, don't try and paint a rosy picture of what the Ottomans did in Macedonia over a century ago, and don't compare a few bombing to the mass murder, rapes, pillaging, etc that Macedonians endured from the Ottomans.

            I will ask you again - How many Christian churches were burned by Ottoman Muslims in Macedonia, before these Macedonians decided to give some back?
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • julie
              Senior Member
              • May 2009
              • 3869

              #21
              SoM is correct, the Ottomans had cannons blessed by their Greek mates in slaughtering defenceless Macedonian children, women and young men in villages.
              Macedonians experienced terror on a daily basis under the ottoman empire Onur, its not about tit for tat, any form of violence is despicable, however you can't pinpoint one act of bloodshed by the Macedonians and cry fowl my friend.
              "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

              Comment

              • Liberator of Makedonija
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2014
                • 1595

                #22
                These "Knights of Death" sound like a cover term used for false flag attacks to me
                Last edited by Liberator of Makedonija; 01-27-2021, 05:59 AM.
                I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

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