How Greeks fought against Alexander on Persian side.

[Ottoman]

Some interesting info, I wanted to share it with you guys.

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/greeklie5.html

[Bill77]

Welcome Ottoman

Thanks for the link. There is much more evidence here on the mto archives regarding how Macedonia was not Greek and what the Hellenes really thought of the Macedonian Barbarians.

Our member and administrator "Soldier of Macedon" is one of our specialists on ancient Macedonian history you should search for his work if you are interested.

[julie]

Welcome to the MTO Ottoman

[George S.]

Welcome to mto ottoman.I knew about that as i studied ancient history masters at uni.I know that there were more greeks on the persian side fighting against alexander then the greeks he had on his entourage.
The greeks were paid by the persians to fight against alexander.Also alexander did not trust the greeks that he had with him & put them at the back of the army.So the saying alexander's army was a macedonian army & not a greek one!

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org is a really good website . But watch out for the fake version http://history-of-macedonia.com/ these scums will do anything to steal history.

[Agamoi Thytai]

Greeks also fought against other Greeks on the side of foreigners in many other cases:
The Thebans were Persian allies in the Persian wars:

http://books.google.com/books?id=NjeM0kcp8swC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+ancient+greeks+a+critical+history&hl=el&ei=yBL4TLK6LoKz8QOnse34Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=refurbishing&f=false

The Ionians fought on the Persian side against other Greeks:

http://books.google.com/books?id=YXHRAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=polyaenus+stratagems&hl=el&ei=cBX4TKnmJM-48gOHwJX5Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=impious&f=false

Thessalians also joined Xerxe's army in his campaign against Greece:

http://books.google.com/books?id=04QUF3ArTL4C&pg=PA323&dq=thessalians+persian+allies&hl=el&ei=sxb4TIXXFYq08QOKt6H4Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q=thessalians%20persian%20allies&f=false

Mercenaries from Creta and Pergamon fought on the Roman side against the Achaean League in the battle of Corinth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Corinth_(146_BC)#Overview

[TrueMacedonian]

Greeks also fought against other Greeks on the side of foreigners in many other cases:
The Thebans were Persian allies in the Persian wars:

http://books.google.com/books?id=NjeM0kcp8swC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+ancient+greeks+a+critical+history&hl=el&ei=yBL4TLK6LoKz8QOnse34Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=refurbishing&f=false

The Ionians fought on the Persian side against other Greeks:

http://books.google.com/books?id=YXHRAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=polyaenus+stratagems&hl=el&ei=cBX4TKnmJM-48gOHwJX5Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=impious&f=false

Thessalians also joined Xerxe's army in his campaign against Greece:

http://books.google.com/books?id=04QUF3ArTL4C&pg=PA323&dq=thessalians+persian+allies&hl=el&ei=sxb4TIXXFYq08QOKt6H4Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q=thessalians%20persian%20allies&f=false

Mercenaries from Creta and Pergamon fought on the Roman side against the Achaean League in the battle of Corinth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...6_BC)#Overview

But what does it matter to someone whose relatives only came to Macedonia in the 20th century with the other Baptised Turks? This is where the imposter hellene makes me laugh. We have an entire section here that has thousands of documents that list the massive migration of baptised Turks (the name Macedonians in the 1920's gave todays so-called "greek macedonians(?)" ), the extensive Hellenization of Macedonia and the Macedonians, and the scary fact that it was only in the mid 19th century that the imposter hellenes started appropriating ancient Macedonian history with the help of Droysen and his German made "hellenism".
Look boy we've heard all of your insignificant arguements. And the fact is your propaganda agenda is nothing more than a broken tool covered in rust - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=1316

Your activity would be better spent if you ask one simple question about this - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=4487 WTF did Venizelos mean here?

You suffer from an identity crisis. You and your countrymen need to quarantine that racist toilet you call a State and beg the EU to send in millions of psychologists to help give you all a nationwide lobotomy.

[Jankovska]

Greeks also fought against other Greeks on the side of foreigners in many other cases:
The Thebans were Persian allies in the Persian wars:

http://books.google.com/books?id=NjeM0kcp8swC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+ancient+greeks+a+critical+history&hl=el&ei=yBL4TLK6LoKz8QOnse34Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=refurbishing&f=false

The Ionians fought on the Persian side against other Greeks:

http://books.google.com/books?id=YXHRAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=polyaenus+stratagems&hl=el&ei=cBX4TKnmJM-48gOHwJX5Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=impious&f=false

Thessalians also joined Xerxe's army in his campaign against Greece:

http://books.google.com/books?id=04QUF3ArTL4C&pg=PA323&dq=thessalians+persian+allies&hl=el&ei=sxb4TIXXFYq08QOKt6H4Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q=thessalians%20persian%20allies&f=false

Mercenaries from Creta and Pergamon fought on the Roman side against the Achaean League in the battle of Corinth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...6_BC)#Overview

Yeah and that is why Philip Macedonian played them and concured them, because they were idiots. I mean you have nothing to do with those anicent people but they were still idiots. And those were Greek states, Macedonia wasn't. So I am not sure why you brought this up and were you trying to say that the Macedonians were Greek because Greeks fought other Greeks? Firstly that shows how stupid the Greeks were, history proves they were lousy fighters anyway and how stupid you are to even try and compare this. Macedonia was a separate kingdom, nothing to do with the little town states Greeks made up.

[Pelister]

Greeks also fought against other Greeks on the side of foreigners in many other cases:
The Thebans were Persian allies in the Persian wars:

http://books.google.com/books?id=NjeM0kcp8swC&printsec=frontcover&dq=the+ancient+greeks+a+critical+history&hl=el&ei=yBL4TLK6LoKz8QOnse34Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=refurbishing&f=false

The Ionians fought on the Persian side against other Greeks:

http://books.google.com/books?id=YXHRAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=polyaenus+stratagems&hl=el&ei=cBX4TKnmJM-48gOHwJX5Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=impious&f=false

Thessalians also joined Xerxe's army in his campaign against Greece:

http://books.google.com/books?id=04QUF3ArTL4C&pg=PA323&dq=thessalians+persian+allies&hl=el&ei=sxb4TIXXFYq08QOKt6H4Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwADgU#v=onepage&q=thessalians%20persian%20allies&f=false

Mercenaries from Creta and Pergamon fought on the Roman side against the Achaean League in the battle of Corinth:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...6_BC)#Overview

No one is doubting that Greeks fought for foreigners, but that is distorting the picture and taking the Greeks that fought for the Persian King against the Macedonians, out of context. The very large number of Greeks, fighting against the Macedonians is the first point. If the Macedonians were 'Greeks' why would so many Greeks be fighting against them? Are you suggesting that they did it for the money, and that their was no politics, or racial rivalry behind their decision? Consider also the Greeks that fought in the ranks of Aleksandar's Macedonian army - first of all they were paid mercenaries, and secondly, he dismissed them early in his campaign, because he could not trust them.

[Agamoi Thytai]

But what does it matter to someone whose relatives only came to Macedonia in the 20th century with the other Baptised Turks?

I would say nothing,but personally I also have no relation whatsoever to Asia Minor.

it was only in the mid 19th century that the imposter hellenes started appropriating ancient Macedonian history with the help of Droysen and his German made "hellenism".
Look boy we've heard all of your insignificant arguements. And the fact is your propaganda agenda is nothing more than a broken tool covered in rust - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=1316

Many names are wrongly included in that list of Greek intellectuals who considered Macedonians as non-Greeks.There were certainly Greek intellectuals who considered Macedonians as Greeks long before Paparigopoulos' and Droysen's time.One of them was Adamantios Korais.When the Greek revolution started in 1821,he wrote a proclamation to all the Greeks urging them to join the insurgents.It's easy to undesrtand that he considered ancient Macedonians as Greeks.Τhis is a small abstract:

Oι Θεσσαλοί και οι Mακεδόνες θυμηθείτε ότι οι πρόγονοί σας κατετρόπωσαν τον Δαρείον, όστις ήταν ασυγκρίτως φοβερότερος βασιλεύς από τον σημερινόν άνανδρον και γυναικώδη τύραννον της Eλλάδος. Oι Πελοποννήσιοι και οι λοιποί Έλληνες μη λησμονήσετε τα τρόπαια, όσα κατά των βαρβάρων ανέστησαν οι προπάτορές σας;και σεις ανεξαιρέτως οι Mαϊνώται συλλογιστείτε ότι είσθε αίμα Σπαρτιατών;Όλοι ομού, όσοι με το λαμπρόν όνομα των Γραικών δοξάζεστε.
The Thessalian and Macedonians remember that your ancestors routed Darius, who was by far the most terrible king from the present coward and effeminate tyrant of Greece.The Peloponnesians and other Greeks don't forget the trophies,raised against the barbarians by your forefathers.And you in particular the Maniates contemplate that you are blood of the Spartans. All together,those who are glorified with the brilliant name of the Greeks.

http://books.google.com/books?id=x8IGAAAAQAAJ&pg=PΡ4

You can check the accuracy of the translation here:

http://translate.google.com/#el|en|

I only made some slight modifications on some words from Korais' katharevousa (which are not recognized by the tranlsator) into current demotike form,like θυμηθείτε instead of ενθυμήθητε,ήταν isntead of ήτον,φοβερότερος instead of φοβερώτερος,συλλογιστείτε instead of συλλογίσθητε and δοξάζεστε instead of δοξάζεσθε.

Your activity would be better spent if you ask one simple question about this - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=4487 WTF did Venizelos mean here?

Because there were large non-Greek populations in Macedonia and Thrace in 1916,i don't deny it.However Venizelos was a politician and politicians often make exaggerated statements.This is what Borza says about the reliability of such statements made by politicians,in regards to Demosthenes' calling of Philip as barbarian:

http://books.google.com/books?id=614pd07OtfQC&pg=PA3&dq=in+the+shadow+of+olymp&hl=el&ei=t_n4TJKrJ4aQ4QbJ3s2vBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=politicians&f=false

(See first result,pages 5-6)

[Agamoi Thytai]

So I am not sure why you brought this up and were you trying to say that the Macedonians were Greek because Greeks fought other Greeks?

No,all what i say is that since many Greek tribes allied with non-Greeks to fight against other fellow Greeks,your argument with the Greek mercenaries fighting against Macedonians in the service of Darius doesn't hold much water.

Firstly that shows how stupid the Greeks were, history proves they were lousy fighters anyway and how stupid you are to even try and compare this. Macedonia was a separate kingdom, nothing to do with the little town states Greeks made up.

These lousy fighters crushed the Persian empire in Marathon,Salamis and Plataea.Do you also think Persians were so stupid that they usually hired these "lousy fighters"?

http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&hl=el&q=greek+mercenaries+persian&btnG=%CE%91%CE%BD%CE%B1%CE%B6%CE%AE%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%B7+%CE%92%CE%B9%CE%B2%CE%BB%CE%AF%CF%89%CE%BD

[Agamoi Thytai]

No one is doubting that Greeks fought for foreigners, but that is distorting the picture and taking the Greeks that fought for the Persian King against the Macedonians, out of context. The very large number of Greeks, fighting against the Macedonians is the first point. If the Macedonians were 'Greeks' why would so many Greeks be fighting against them? Are you suggesting that they did it for the money, and that their was no politics, or racial rivalry behind their decision?

Pelister,people become mercenaries only for profit and nothing else,they don't care on whose behalf they will fight or against whom.So they will fight even against their compatriots and they usually are hired by those that are in great need of their services.At that time the Persians were in great need of mercenaries and that explains the high number of Greek mercenaries in Darius' service.

Consider also the Greeks that fought in the ranks of Aleksandar's Macedonian army - first of all they were paid mercenaries, and secondly, he dismissed them early in his campaign, because he could not trust them.

Thank you fro reminding this!Yes,that's true,Alexander dismissed all his Greek troops quite early.Thus,when in India,his army consisted only of Macedonians.Well,what's your view on this small abstract from Arrian's Indica:

http://websfor.org/alexander/arrian/indica2.asp

Some of them advanced some distance inland, breaking away from the main force, some in pursuit of this, and some of that. There a man appeared to them, wearing a Greek cloak, and dressed otherwise in the Greek fashion, and speaking Greek also. Those who first sighted him said that they burst into tears, so strange did it seem after all these miseries to see a Greek, and to hear Greek spoken. They asked whence he came, who he was; and he said that he had become separated from Alexander's camp, and that the camp, and Alexander himself, were not very far distant. Shouting aloud and clapping their hands they brought this man to Nearchus; and he told Nearchus everything, and that the camp and the King himself were distant five days' journey from the coast.

[TrueMacedonian]

One of them was Adamantios Korais.

The Thessalian and Macedonians remember that your ancestors routed Darius, who was by far the most terrible king from the present coward and effeminate tyrant of Greece.The Peloponnesians and other Greeks don't forget the trophies,raised against the barbarians by your forefathers.And you in particular the Maniates contemplate that you are blood of the Spartans. All together,those who are glorified with the brilliant name of the Greeks.

I guess Peter Mackridge got it all wrong then. I better contact Oxford and tell them to fire his ass for incompetence:

[TrueMacedonian]

Because there were large non-Greek populations in Macedonia and Thrace in 1916,i don't deny it.However Venizelos was a politician and politicians often make exaggerated statements.

Capo D'istria must have been exaggerating too: http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...apo+D%27istria

[Jankovska]

No,all what i say is that since many Greek tribes allied with non-Greeks to fight against other fellow Greeks,your argument with the Greek mercenaries fighting against Macedonians in the service of Darius doesn't hold much water.

These lousy fighters crushed the Persian empire in Marathon,Salamis and Plataea.Do you also think Persians were so stupid that they usually hired these "lousy fighters"?
http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks...AF%CF%89%CE%BD

So what is it you are trying to make us see, that the Greeks were everyone's bitch? We know that already.
Hahaha and yet everyone ruled them, nice try. But hey we concured them so the stronger they sound the better, at least they were a good strong enemy, even more to be happy to be Macedonian. Shame that's not the true tho. As I remember the Persian empire was the biggest until Aleksandar took over.