Originally posted by TrueMacedonian
View Post
How Greeks fought against Alexander on Persian side.
Collapse
X
-
"What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
Polybius, Histories, 9.35
-
-
Agamoi that's a lot of dribble bs coming from you.When you can;t admit even the denial that the greeks have for the existence of the macedonians.In the battle of chaeronia why would greek fight greek if macedonians were the same as the greeks.Do you understand what a barbarian is a non greek.The greeks practised slavery the macedonians didn't.One thing that is not mentioned is in the battle of chaeronia demosthenes was hoping that alexander the great would be killed because he hated him for being a macedonian.When demosthenes found out that alexander wasn;t killed he flew into a fit of rage & hate.Also if macedonia was greek why was it excluded from the trojan wars.So once again we have ignorance & denial.Also why were there so many anti macedonian wars waged by greece agains't macedonia years after alexander the great.Simply because greece resented macedonian rule."Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View PostCapo D'istria must have been exaggerating too: http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...apo+D%27istria
This study is the first to systematically investigate Byzantine imperial ideology, court rhetoric and political thought after the Latin conquest of Constantinople in 1204 - in the Nicaean state (1204-61) and during the early period of the restored empire of the Palaiologoi. The book explores Byzantine political imagination at a time of crisis when the Empire ceased to be a first-rate power in the Mediterranean. It investigates the correspondence and fissures between official political rhetoric, on the one hand, and the political ideas of lay thinkers and churchmen, on the other. Through the analysis of a wide body of sources, a picture of Byzantine political thought emerges which differs significantly from the traditional one. The period saw refreshing developments in court rhetoric and political thought, some with interesting parallels in the medieval and Renaissance West, which arose in response to the new historical realities.
Or Rigas Phereos who published in 1796 a map of Greece with a portrait of Alexander the Great,"whose name had long been a legend among modern Greeks":
IMHO more important on these matters is not the view of any politician but public opinion,that is the beliefs of common people.Alexander was always considered as Greek in the folkbeliefs of common Greek people.This is the reason why he is the only figure from antiquity that survived in the folk-consciousness of medieval and modern Greece:
In this collection of sixteen literary and historical essays, Peter Green informs, entertains, and stimulates. He covers a wide range of subjects, from Greek attitudes toward death to the mysteries of the Delphic Oracle, from Tutankhamun and the gold of Egypt to sex in ancient literature, from the island of Lesbos (where he once lived) to the challenges of translating Ovid's wit and elegant eroticism into present-day English verse, from Victorian pederastic aesthetics to Marxism's losing battle with ancient history. This third volume of Green's essays (several previously unpublished) reveals throughout his serious concern that we are, in a very real sense, losing the legacy of antiquity through the corrosive methodologies of modern academic criticism."What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
Polybius, Histories, 9.35
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by Jankovska View PostSo what is it you are trying to make us see, that the Greeks were everyone's bitch? We know that already.
Hahaha and yet everyone ruled them, nice try.
1) ancient Macedonians were not Greeks
2)Modern Macedonians are the direct descendands of ancient Macedonians
Then they were also conquered by Romans and later ruled by Byzantines,while in medieval time they were interchangeably ruled by Byzantines,Bulgarians and Serbs and finally conquered by the Turks.Also note that Macedonians were the last Balkan people who gained their freedom from Ottomans.So after the Persian campaign,that's hardly a glorious past of which one can boasts."What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
Polybius, Histories, 9.35
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View PostI don't know where Mackridge's view based is.I showed what Korais himself wrote and this is definitely against Mackridge's view.
And I recommend you and the Ufologists at A"m"AC put your thick skulls together, you know all 6 of you, to form one complete brain and to write to those in charge in Oxford because I am appalled that Peter Mackridge, a supposed educated man ( http://www.princeton.edu/webannounce.../MAR_Text.html ) would lie like this. You should email him directly as well:
Peter Mackridge ([email protected]) is Emeritus Professor of Modern Greek at the University of Oxford and an Emeritus Fellow of St Cross College. He has authored The Modern Greek Language (1985) and Dionysios Solomos (1989), co-authored a comprehensive grammar (1997) and an essential grammar (2004) of Modern Greek, edited two novels by Kosmas Politis and the volume Dionysios Solomos, The Free Besieged and other Poems (2000), and co-edited (with Eleni Yannakakis) books on the development of Greek Macedonian cultural identity (1997) and on contemporary Greek fiction (2004). He has also published a large number of articles on medieval and Modern Greek language and literature.Last edited by TrueMacedonian; 12-03-2010, 06:41 PM.Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!
Comment
-
-
Agamoi,
Thanks for that link. I found an interesting map from it, a map of Alexanders Empire. I am wandering if you have seen it? and why it Shows a distinction between Macedonia and Hellas ?
Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View Post
Then they were also conquered by Romans and later ruled by Byzantines,while in medieval time they were interchangeably ruled by Byzantines,Bulgarians and Serbs and finally conquered by the Turks.Also note that Macedonians were the last Balkan people who gained their freedom from Ottomans.So after the Persian campaign,that's hardly a glorious past of which one can boasts.
Let me give you a list of your Daddies.
Macedonian Empire
Roman Empire
Byzantine empire (which during this period the true Hellenic Blood disappeared)
It was during these centuries, that what remained, if indeed anything remained, of even degenerate Hellenic blood absorbed or was absorbed into that of the Slav……Indeed, the Albanians appear to have done for Greece in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries something like that which that Sclavonians had done in the sixth and seventh
(A Monthly Review – Greece, Spoilt Child of Europe)
Foreign Monarchs and western Powers
European Union
At which point from the battle of Chaeronea till today, can be said that the ancient Hellenes or the current occupiers of the Republic of Greece,
Have truly been Free.http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by George S. View PostAgamoi that's a lot of dribble bs coming from you.When you can;t admit even the denial that the greeks have for the existence of the macedonians.In the battle of chaeronia why would greek fight greek if macedonians were the same as the greeks.
Thereupon Cleigenes of Acanthus spoke as follows: “Men of Lacedaemon and of the allied states, we think you are unaware that a great danger is springing up in Greece. To be sure,almost all of you know that Olynthus is the largest of the cities on the coast of Thrace. These Olynthians, in the first place, attached to themselves some of the cities with the provision that all should live under the same laws and be fellow-citizens, and then they took over some of the larger cities also. After this they undertook, further, to free the cities of Macedonia from Amyntas, king of the Macedonians.And when the nearest of them gave their allegiance, they speedily proceeded against those which were farther away and larger; and we left them already in possession of a great number of Macedonian cities, including especially Pella, which is the largest of the cities in Macedonia. We also had information that Amyntas was withdrawing from his cities and had already been all but driven out of all Macedonia
Originally posted by George S. View PostDo you understand what a barbarian is a non greek
Alexander gave a long address to the Thessalians and the rest of the Greeks. They acclaimed by shouting for him to lead them against the barbarians and at this he shifted his lance into his left hand, so Callisthenes tells us, and raising his right be called upon the gods and prayed that he were really the son of Zeus they should protect and encourage the Greeks.
Plutarch's Lives of the great Greek statesmen and men of action were designed to pair with the now better-known Roman portraits and contain many of his finest descriptions of war, revolution and heroic achievement. They include studies of Demosthenes and Phocion, the leading Athenian orators; of Agesilaus, the Spartan King, and Pelopidas, the Theban military hero; of Dion and Timoleon, the 'liberators' of Sicily; and, above all, of three generals - Demetrius 'the Besieger', Pyrrhys and Alexander the Great.
Accordingly,those who had been standing outside the royal quarters rushed to the spot,barbarians and Macedonians alike and in the general grief,conqueror and conquered were indistinguishable.
There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service — but how different is their cause from ours! They will be fighting for pay — and not much of at that; we, on the contrary, shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be in it. As for our foreign troops — Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians, Agrianes — they are the best and stoutest soldiers in Europe.
Similar to these two was Amyntas,the king of Macedon.When he had been defeated in battle by the barbarians who lived at his borders and had lost all Macedon
Philip, commanding the right wing, which consisted of the flower of the Macedonians serving under him, ordered his cavalry to ride past the ranks of the barbarians and attack them on the flank, while he himself falling on the enemy.
You forget also that there are many barbarous tribes on the border of Macedonia, who would make easy incursions into Greece if the Macedonian kings were taken away. Wherefore, I think that the Macedonian government should be left to protect you against the barbarians
Originally posted by George S. View PostAlso if macedonia was greek why was it excluded from the trojan wars.
Originally posted by George S. View PostSo once again we have ignorance & denial.Also why were there so many anti macedonian wars waged by greece agains't macedonia years after alexander the great.Simply because greece resented macedonian rule.
The Cleomenean war was fought by Sparta and its ally, Elis, against the Achaean League and Macedon.
The Cretan War (205–200 BC) was fought by King Philip V of Macedon, the Aetolian League, several Cretan cities (of which Olous and Hierapytna were the most important) and Spartan pirates against the forces of Rhodes and later Attalus I of Pergamum, Byzantium, Cyzicus, Athens and Knossos.
The Aetolian War (191 BC – 189 BC) was fought between the Romans and their Achaean and Macedonian allies and the Aetolian League and their allies, the kingdom of Athamania.
The War against Nabis or Laconian War of 195 BC was fought between the Greek city-state of Sparta and a coalition composed of Rome, the Achean League, Pergamum, Rhodes, and Macedon.
"What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
Polybius, Histories, 9.35
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View PostWhat year was this Korais book released?
Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View PostAnd I recommend you and the Ufologists at A"m"AC put your thick skulls together, you know all 6 of you, to form one complete brain and to write to those in charge in Oxford because I am appalled that Peter Mackridge, a supposed educated man ( http://www.princeton.edu/webannounce.../MAR_Text.html ) would lie like this. You should email him directly as well:
Peter Mackridge ([email protected]) is Emeritus Professor of Modern Greek at the University of Oxford and an Emeritus Fellow of St Cross College. He has authored The Modern Greek Language (1985) and Dionysios Solomos (1989), co-authored a comprehensive grammar (1997) and an essential grammar (2004) of Modern Greek, edited two novels by Kosmas Politis and the volume Dionysios Solomos, The Free Besieged and other Poems (2000), and co-edited (with Eleni Yannakakis) books on the development of Greek Macedonian cultural identity (1997) and on contemporary Greek fiction (2004). He has also published a large number of articles on medieval and Modern Greek language and literature."What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
Polybius, Histories, 9.35
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View PostKapodistrias was not exaggerating but he was just an ignorant.Other clebrated figures of medieval and modern Greek history believed Macedonians were Greek.Like the Byzantine emperor Theodoros Laskaris who called Alexander the Great emperor of the Hellenes.
This study is the first to systematically investigate Byzantine imperial ideology, court rhetoric and political thought after the Latin conquest of Constantinople in 1204 - in the Nicaean state (1204-61) and during the early period of the restored empire of the Palaiologoi. The book explores Byzantine political imagination at a time of crisis when the Empire ceased to be a first-rate power in the Mediterranean. It investigates the correspondence and fissures between official political rhetoric, on the one hand, and the political ideas of lay thinkers and churchmen, on the other. Through the analysis of a wide body of sources, a picture of Byzantine political thought emerges which differs significantly from the traditional one. The period saw refreshing developments in court rhetoric and political thought, some with interesting parallels in the medieval and Renaissance West, which arose in response to the new historical realities.
Or Rigas Phereos who published in 1796 a map of Greece with a portrait of Alexander the Great,"whose name had long been a legend among modern Greeks":
IMHO more important on these matters is not the view of any politician but public opinion,that is the beliefs of common people.Alexander was always considered as Greek in the folkbeliefs of common Greek people.This is the reason why he is the only figure from antiquity that survived in the folk-consciousness of medieval and modern Greece:
http://books.google.com/books?id=zlFXc9N19yUC&pg=PA155
Dragoumis even describes Macedonians in his little book. Not the "greek-macedonian(?)" kind either.
Speaking of "greek-macedonians(?)" check this one out - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=2863
Folk consciousness? Let's see some of these folk songs about ATG that you're talking about.Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!
Comment
-
-
That link of the map you gave us shows greece as hellas ,then seperately it shows macedonia as a seperate country.You & others like yourselves should wise up to yourselves to stop lying & deceiving yourselves that you are macedonians when you are not.You are a bunch of fakes if you read your own history that you should not be proud of committing attrocities on the macedonian people & lying,denying the macedonian people's existence & lying,Changing the toponyms & lying,Stealing & appropriating macedonian history & lying,
WE know the macedonians were not greeks.Some were philhellenes.The speaking of greek does not make a person greek.Only when they created the greek state in 1832.So how convenient for you to deny macedonian existence when we have been under turkish occupation since the 13 century.What do the turks say we are macedonians & the whole of macedonia existed as one prior to division in 1913.After 1913 to hide the fact that there was macedonians the greeks forbade them to speak macedonian,changed toponyms,instigated population exchanges.Agamoi i would hasard to guess that you might be related to the prosfeges as your'e not as pure as you think.TM has busted many myths regarding the not so pureness of greeks."Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View PostSo what?Even if I accept that:
1) ancient Macedonians were not Greeks
2)Modern Macedonians are the direct descendands of ancient Macedonians
Then they were also conquered by Romans and later ruled by Byzantines,while in medieval time they were interchangeably ruled by Byzantines,Bulgarians and Serbs and finally conquered by the Turks.Also note that Macedonians were the last Balkan people who gained their freedom from Ottomans.So after the Persian campaign,that's hardly a glorious past of which one can boasts.
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View PostCapo D'istria was ignorant? And Venizelos exagerrated? I guess Ion Dragoumis must've been smoking something - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ight=dragoumis
"I am one of the last Greeks who regard Macedonia with the Byzantine memory and with the hope that it could become Greek".
You aere misinterpreting his statement.He actually meant Macedonia was not any more Greek as it was once in Byzantine time (that's why he mentions "Byzantine memories".Do you think Byzantium was for Dragoumis' ideology a non-Greek state?) because she still belonged to the Ottomans and it would become Greek again only if it was again part of the Greek state
Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View PostSpeaking of "greek-macedonians(?)" check this one out - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=2863
Why would a Greek exclude his native land from his definition of Greece,don't you find it quite starnge?Besides Stageiritis was only known as teacher of Greek language and not as geographer.There is nowhere mentioned by any source that he wrote a geography of Greece.Instead in some other page of the book Koliopoulos and Veremis say that he had published a history of ancient and modern Epirus with Pyrrhus' life:
This study examines the impact of the Axis occupation (1941-4) and the Greek Civil War (1946-9) on Greek West Macedonia's multilingual and deeply fragmented population.
But how is it he didn't considered Epirus as part of Greece when he writes books on her ancient and modern history,that's too controversial!
However searching for some info on John Koliopoulos and Thanos Veremisi found the only reasonable explanation.Koliopoulos is president of ELIAMEP:
And Veremis is the vice-president:
Γνώση πριν απο τη Δράση
Now look who are some of the sponsors of ELIAMEP:
Γνώση πριν απο τη Δράση
Sorosoids!
Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View PostFolk consciousness? Let's see some of these folk songs about ATG that you're talking about.
The folklorist in Macedonia.--The folk-calendar and the seasons.--January, February and March.--Eastertide.--April, May and June.--July to December.--Winter...
The folklorist in Macedonia.--The folk-calendar and the seasons.--January, February and March.--Eastertide.--April, May and June.--July to December.--Winter...
Last edited by Agamoi Thytai; 12-04-2010, 04:12 PM."What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
Polybius, Histories, 9.35
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by George S. View PostThat link of the map you gave us shows greece as hellas ,then seperately it shows macedonia as a seperate country.
In today's cosmopolitan world, ethnic and national identity has assumed an ever-increasing importance. But how is this identity formed, and how does it change over time? With Hellenicity, Jonathan M. Hall explores these questions in the context of ancient Greece, drawing on an exceptionally wide range of evidence to determine when, how, why, and to what extent the Greeks conceived themselves as a single people. Hall argues that a subjective sense of Hellenic identity emerged in Greece much later than is normally assumed. For instance, he shows that the four main ethnic subcategories of the ancient Greeks—Akhaians, Ionians, Aiolians, and Dorians—were not primordial survivals from a premigratory period, but emerged in precise historical circumstances during the eighth and seventh centuries B.C. Furthermore, Hall demonstrates that the terms of defining Hellenic identity shifted from ethnic to broader cultural criteria during the course of the fifth century B.C., chiefly due to the influence of Athens, whose citizens formulated a new Athenoconcentric conception of "Greekness."
This sense of the initial definition of Hellas is also refelected here.Greece,Epirus,Thessaly and Acarnania are mentioned as separate countries too:
Even Thebans are mentioned as inhabitants of a country separate from Greece:
Anyway,what matters more is not the name of the country but what are the inhabitants.Cyprus is a separate country from Greece but Cypriots are Greek:
Nevertheless Strabo in his geography wrote "Macedonia, of course, is a part of Greece":
"What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?"
Polybius, Histories, 9.35
Comment
-
-
This is what Dragoumis said:
"I am one of the last Greeks who regard Macedonia with the Byzantine memory and with the hope that it could become Greek".
You aere misinterpreting his statement.He actually meant Macedonia was not any more Greek as it was once in Byzantine time (that's why he mentions "Byzantine memories".Do you think Byzantium was for Dragoumis' ideology a non-Greek state?) because she still belonged to the Ottomans and it would become Greek again only if it was again part of the Greek state
I smell a rat in the case of John Koliopoulos and Thanos Veremis,the authors of this book,given that Stageiritis was descending from Macedonia,in particular the birthplace of Aristotle,Stageira (hence his surname meaning one who is from Stageira) :
Why would a Greek exclude his native land from his definition of Greece,don't you find it quite starnge?Besides Stageiritis was only known as teacher of Greek language and not as geographer.There is nowhere mentioned by any source that he wrote a geography of Greece.Instead in some other page of the book Koliopoulos and Veremis say that he had published a history of ancient and modern Epirus with Pyrrhus' life:
But how is it he didn't considered Epirus as part of Greece when he writes books on her ancient and modern history,that's too controversial!
However searching for some info on John Koliopoulos and Thanos Veremisi found the only reasonable explanation.Koliopoulos is president of ELIAMEP:
And Veremis is the vice-president:
Γνώση πριν απο τη Δράση
Now look who are some of the sponsors of ELIAMEP:
Γνώση πριν απο τη Δράση
Sorosoids!
Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by Agamoi Thytai View PostHowever I accept that even in ancient time Macedonia was usually mentioned as a separate country from Greece,but it doesn't matter.
This is mainly owed to the fact that originally Hellas proper was considered only a small territory in central Greece,what is today the region around the modern town of Lamia.And some times even Peloponnesus was excluded from that definition of HellasLast edited by Onur; 12-04-2010, 05:16 PM.
Comment
-
Comment