One links Alexander and Skanderberg? Turks told stories about Alexander as well? I have seen a topic in here that discusses Alexander folklore that you started under a different name (haven't you been banned like 8 times now lol?) http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=4419 It was never a "greek" property to begin with. Many peoples had Alexander in their folktales and songs. Just as Serbs, Bulgars, Macedonians, and even Albanians share folktales and songs about Krali Marko. But since you answered my question I am only glad to show you some instances where something that may appear to be 'yours' is actually not.
Oh I am in no way ashamed of our past, I could not be prouder. We have been beaten, used, raped, tortured, our history and country raped by many and yet we are still Macedonians.
I didn't say you should be ashamed!That's the fate of all small (in number) nations,we also suffered the same.
Greece has never had an empire, our may have fallen but it was the greatest ever.
Here I disagree with you because the one who founded the empire you're claiming selfidentified as Greek:
"And when the Book of Daniel was shown him wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians, he supposed that he was the person intended, and rejoiced thereat".
The Persians also considered that their empire was conquered by Greeks:
"They recalled that at the start of his reign Darius had issued orders for the shape of the scabbard of the Persian scimitar to be altered to the shape used by the Greeks, and that the Chaldeans had immediately interpreted this as meaning that rule over the Persians would pass to those people whose arms Darius had copied".
What has your fake country to be proud of? Name on thing?
I wont recall something from ancient time.On the contrary i prefer something more recent,a quote from Adolf Hitler's speech in Berlin :
"Nothing is impossible for the German soldier. Historical justice, however, obliges me to say that of the opponents that have taken up arms against us, MOST PARTICULARLY THE GREEK SOLDIERS, HAVE FOUGHT WITH THE GREATEST BRAVERY AND CONTEMPT OF DEATH. They only capitulated when further resistance became impossible and therefore useless".
"What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?" Polybius, Histories, 9.35
Agamoi, do you have some info how many of the soldiers of the Royal Greek Army were "Makedones to Genos"? (Macedonians like me and my grandfathers, not some fake "Pontian Macedonians")
not from Ancient times, of course, i mean the Greek Army that fought against the invading Italian, later German / Bulgarian Armies... WWII...
Bratot:
Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.
Agamoi, do you have some info how many of the soldiers of the Royal Greek Army were "Makedones to Genos"? (Macedonians like me and my grandfathers, not some fake "Pontian Macedonians")
not from Ancient times, of course, i mean the Greek Army that fought against the invading Italian, later German / Bulgarian Armies... WWII...
Serdarot , good question, my maternal grandfather fought on the Italian front for the "greeks" and was repaid for his services to his country by being marched on the village square to be beheaded and his family to be kicked out of the country during the civil war following.
Fucked up Greeks
"The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev
Agamoi you hit the nail on the head by saying it doesn't matter,also the greeks claim that the macedonians don;t exist.This is exact propaganda straight from the greek fascist government.That's what they want the greek citizens to hear & say.If we say we are macedonians & you discount that by saying we don't exist or doesn't matter.Our existence proves that we exist.You on the otherhand are lying to yourselves by saying the opposite.Why don't you go to your junta(democratic) government for some more brainwashing.Do you think that people are naive or stupid to beleive the crap coming out of greece.It's all bs.Who are the real macedonians we are you pontiac.Evidence from the helsinki human rights watch has proved that greece is a big liar.Greece has committed & is still commiting grave injustices on the macedonians.Denial & paranoia is the tool in trade used by the greek government.Agamoi if you can't think foryourself & you want your government to lie to you then you go ahead & get brainwashed.
"Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
I didn't say you should be ashamed!That's the fate of all small (in number) nations,we also suffered the same.
Here I disagree with you because the one who founded the empire you're claiming selfidentified as Greek:
"And when the Book of Daniel was shown him wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians, he supposed that he was the person intended, and rejoiced thereat".
The Persians also considered that their empire was conquered by Greeks:
"They recalled that at the start of his reign Darius had issued orders for the shape of the scabbard of the Persian scimitar to be altered to the shape used by the Greeks, and that the Chaldeans had immediately interpreted this as meaning that rule over the Persians would pass to those people whose arms Darius had copied".
I wont recall something from ancient time.On the contrary i prefer something more recent,a quote from Adolf Hitler's speech in Berlin :
"Nothing is impossible for the German soldier. Historical justice, however, obliges me to say that of the opponents that have taken up arms against us, MOST PARTICULARLY THE GREEK SOLDIERS, HAVE FOUGHT WITH THE GREATEST BRAVERY AND CONTEMPT OF DEATH. They only capitulated when further resistance became impossible and therefore useless". http://www.hitler.org/speeches/05-04-41.html
Greece NEVER had an empire, no one has even heard of the Greek empire. Until Philip concured the Greeks thy fought endless wars with the Persians, they never concured Persia. Persia fell under Aleksandar, even he had problems. Stop making up history, you guys are so good it at that I actually feel you believe it. You had the Macedonian empire, the British, the Ottoman, the Roman you NEVER EVER had a Greek empire. Greece wasn't even a country it was lots of different little states that all hated each other. Macedonia concured most of the than known world, while you had naked people who taked shit all day long and called themselves philospohers. The Greeks hated Philip Makedonski, they hated the Macedonians, they considered them as barbarians and nothing more. The Persians had nightmares about Philip and Aleksandar, not about the Greeks. The Greeks in anicent times were everyone's bitch and therefore they could have never ever had an empire. I doubt that Greeks even know the meaning of the world. It is well noted that Aleksandar Makedonski the great on occassions spoke to the MAcedonian army in his tounge language and to the rest in Greek. No Greek can ever explain the battle of Cheronea? Why would Philip kick some serious Greek arse if he believed for one second to be Greek. He hated the Greek. He only chose Aristotel as Aleksandar's teacher to teach Aleksandar everything about the Greeks to so he can know what to expect plu he could, he owned every Greek arse anyway.
It is also noted that Aleksandar never trusted his Greek soldiers and in every battle they were just the meat, not the smart ones.
As for Hitler and what he said that is laughable, honestly. You are quoting a guy who was so fucked up in the head. Most didn't fight Hitler, any resistance to him would have come as a surprise. It was a mistake that the greeks fought Hitler, you guys have so much in common with the Nazi's, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
You show me a map of the Greek empire, where the Greeks went and who they concured. Don't steal my history, show me yours. Oh right Asia Minor was never an empire.
i know for a fact that cypriot greeks who don't like the mainland greece & are not regarded in a high manner as well.The mainland greeks cause more trouble than they are worth.
Ottoman you hit the nail on the head the stupid greeks are the ones with their stupid & fanciful ideas.
"Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
i know for a fact that cypriot greeks who don't like the mainland greece & are not regarded in a high manner as well.The mainland greeks cause more trouble than they are worth.
Ottoman you hit the nail on the head the stupid greeks are the ones with their stupid & fanciful ideas.
One links Alexander and Skanderberg? Turks told stories about Alexander as well?
Nothing strange.Skanderbeg was known to Turks as Skender Bey.Don't you know that Skender is the Turkish version of the name Alexander?(Onur or Ottoman can confirm this) Now it's not strange that some of those Macedonian Turks told stories about Alexander if you consider that most Turks in European soil were actually descendands of renegade native Christians (and there were such even in southern Macedonia who spoke only Greek)
I don't see what's the relation between Alexander and this custom.After all,your own source who is Macedonian claims the name of the custom in all possibility derives from the name of an ancient Greek procession.Then he connects it to a Slavic deity,who knows?Maybe both Greeks and Slavic peoples contributed to its creation and perhaps Rumanians or Vlachs,as another of the books you quoted reads.
Well the Vlachs are still where they were in medieval time,in and around the region of Mountain Pindus.Perhaps they spoke Greek and even composed some folksongs in Greek but this doesn't mean all Greeks were in fact Hellenized Vlachs,if that's your point.Despite their fluency in Greek they are mentioned as a distinct people in all the sources you've posted.
I see a misconception concerning the interpretation of one of your friends sources.It's true that Victor Grigorovich wrote this:
In all areas I visited, I have not heard other names but the names of Alexander the Great and King Marko. Both are alive in the memory of the people.
However we should first see the whole context.What were these areas he visited and to whom people did he talk there?Because he did not visit only regions that belong today to Macedonia but even towns of Bulgaria (not what you call Pirin Macedonia,I mean Bulgaria proper) and a town of modern Greece.So he visited Ohrid,Resen,Skopje,Veles,Strumica,Serres,Djumaa (modern Blagoevgrad),the Rilo monastery,Dupnitsa,Tatar Bazardjik,Sofia Plovdiv,and the adjacent to the Danube territory.So who were those people that kept alive in their memory the name of Alexander?Did Bulgarians from Sofia,Plovdiv and the Danube remember Alexander too besides Macedonians?Or maybe the Turks,the Jews and the Albanians who are mentioned as well among the inhabitants of all these regions?Maybe the Greeks,since he mentions Greek inhabitants in Ohrid,Serres,Plovdiv and Tatar Pazardjik?Now if he read the whole quote it's all clear:
In all areas I visited, I have not heard other names but the names of Alexander the Great and King Marko. Both are alive in the memory of the people.The memory of Alexander the Great seems to be instilled in more people,because often those who pronounced his name,could not otherwise explain who he was,than refering to books that the teachers have.
That means people spoke of Alexander not because it was a firmly rooted tradition.They only knew about Alexander because they heard some teachers talking about him.The only schools he mentions in his trip though are mainly Greek schools and few Bulgarian.So people in Macedonia and Bulgaria in 19th century knew about Alexander because they were taught his history in Greek schools.
"What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?" Polybius, Histories, 9.35
Agamoi, do you have some info how many of the soldiers of the Royal Greek Army were "Makedones to Genos"? (Macedonians like me and my grandfathers, not some fake "Pontian Macedonians")
not from Ancient times, of course, i mean the Greek Army that fought against the invading Italian, later German / Bulgarian Armies... WWII...
I don't doubt there were Macedonians serving in the Greek army in 1940.Does it mean we should credit them with Hitler's praise too?I don't have a problem.There were even Jews from Salonica and once i read somewhere the first losses of the Greek army in the Albanian front against the Italians consisted largely of Salonica Jews.However I don't think Hitler's intention was to praise those Jews too!
"What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?" Polybius, Histories, 9.35
I cannot diagree there, Iskender (Skender) means Alexander in Turkish thats correct.
I heard stories that Skanderbeg was Greek but many Albanians turn wild when hearing this.
Greece NEVER had an empire, no one has even heard of the Greek empire. Until Philip concured the Greeks thy fought endless wars with the Persians, they never concured Persia. Persia fell under Aleksandar, even he had problems. Stop making up history, you guys are so good it at that I actually feel you believe it. You had the Macedonian empire, the British, the Ottoman, the Roman you NEVER EVER had a Greek empire. Greece wasn't even a country it was lots of different little states that all hated each other. Macedonia concured most of the than known world, while you had naked people who taked shit all day long and called themselves philospohers. The Greeks hated Philip Makedonski, they hated the Macedonians, they considered them as barbarians and nothing more. The Persians had nightmares about Philip and Aleksandar, not about the Greeks. The Greeks in anicent times were everyone's bitch and therefore they could have never ever had an empire. I doubt that Greeks even know the meaning of the world. It is well noted that Aleksandar Makedonski the great on occassions spoke to the MAcedonian army in his tounge language and to the rest in Greek. No Greek can ever explain the battle of Cheronea? Why would Philip kick some serious Greek arse if he believed for one second to be Greek. He hated the Greek. He only chose Aristotel as Aleksandar's teacher to teach Aleksandar everything about the Greeks to so he can know what to expect plu he could, he owned every Greek arse anyway.
It is also noted that Aleksandar never trusted his Greek soldiers and in every battle they were just the meat, not the smart ones.
As for Hitler and what he said that is laughable, honestly. You are quoting a guy who was so fucked up in the head. Most didn't fight Hitler, any resistance to him would have come as a surprise. It was a mistake that the greeks fought Hitler, you guys have so much in common with the Nazi's, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.
You show me a map of the Greek empire, where the Greeks went and who they concured. Don't steal my history, show me yours. Oh right Asia Minor was never an empire.
It's OK,Jankovska!Don't worry,Greece doesn't exist,she actually did never exist,nor Greek history,it's all a hoax,a huge lie!It's all just a bad nightmare,soon you'll wake up and realize it!Now turn your side and try to get some sleep more,may you have sweet dreams,dear!Don't let these evil demons to ruin your sleep:
"What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks?" Polybius, Histories, 9.35
I don't doubt there were Macedonians serving in the Greek army in 1940.Does it mean we should credit them with Hitler's praise too?I don't have a problem.There were even Jews from Salonica and once i read somewhere the first losses of the Greek army in the Albanian front against the Italians consisted largely of Salonica Jews.However I don't think Hitler's intention was to praise those Jews too!
i asked if you have some numbers of the recruted soldiers to defend Greece from the invading Italian Fascist Armies. simply couse many of our grandfathers fought, some died, defending Greece from the invading fascist armies.
many died to free Greece from the mentioned fascist armies, in the years that followed.
I donīt understand what you want to achieve with involving Hitler in simply question
btw, you were ok till now, most of us shows big dose of hostility, but you tried to debate without insults (so far i noticed)
stay like that pls, i hope my sisters and brothers Macedonians will show some traditional Macedonian Hospitality, and avoid to insult you so far you dont provoce
p.s.
it is hard for you to swallow some of the things red here, but each coin has 2 sides + the "side view"
we would all be happy if there was no need for this forum, and we could live as good neighbors
Bratot:
Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.
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