Modern Turkey: Ottomanism vs Secularism

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    #16
    Originally posted by Onur View Post
    their rulers lives in ridicules richness with 40 women in their harems, golden toilets to shit on and cocaine parties all day long while USA sucks all their oil dry.
    I got rid of my golden toilet ... too cold.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

    Comment

    • freifrau
      Banned
      • Sep 2010
      • 89

      #17
      Originally posted by Onur View Post
      Yes, Turkey has her own way of democracy and republic and we are happy with it and we never wanna be some kind of western-type. So, Sarkozy was right, Turkey is not a European country. IMO, Turkey is both European and Asian country at the same time, exactly like her geographical position in the world and we love her this way.
      Well Onur, without saying that western-type democracy is heavenly made...actually for me is the best type of state and administration at this time.
      I am not really sure that ALL Turks agree with you- Probably there are people who don't think it is natural the Army to get involved in politics, suppression of human rights or fighting with minorities.
      No offence.

      Comment

      • Onur
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2010
        • 2389

        #18
        Originally posted by freifrau View Post
        Well Onur, without saying that western-type democracy is heavenly made...actually for me is the best type of state and administration at this time.
        I am not really sure that ALL Turks agree with you- Probably there are people who don't think it is natural the Army to get involved in politics, suppression of human rights or fighting with minorities.
        No offence.

        I understand you and for us, our democracy is best because it`s the most suitable for us and what we have here is not that different as you think from your western-type either.


        Not ALL the Turks agree with me but i believe that my opinion is also the opinion of the most of people here and the stuff you count here as "suppression of human rights..." and so on was the exaggerations of the EU officials as i said b4. This is just another excuse, plea to keep Turkey at their doorway forever and you know what, i hope they continue to do that since most of Turkish people don't wanna be a part of the EU anymore but my personal best bet is the referandum joke of Bulgar fascists of VMRO, to make Bulgaria to deny Turkey`s membership, LOL... I prefer Turkey`s 50 years of EU journey to end with this way
        Last edited by Onur; 09-13-2010, 08:39 PM.

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13670

          #19
          The point you made earlier was significant, Onur, in that the more educated and liberal types from the west of Turkey are against Erdogan's Islamist policies, whereas the more conservative and, dare I say, ignorant in the east are for him. Perhaps this is why he is so sympathetic to Kurds?
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            #20
            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
            Perhaps this is why he is so sympathetic to Kurds?
            I suspect whatever love he has for the Kurds comes directly from the USA thumbprint on his forehead.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              #21
              Or he could be trying to appeal to their greater sense of 'Islamism' for the purpose of increasing his own numbers, at the expense of actual Turks in Turkey.

              The issue here is that some may perceive those against Erdogan as being against Islam, which is clearly not the case. Turkey's secularism is one of the key reasons why they are miles ahead of the states that neighbour them. Having an Islamist government appointing judges and such is not a good thing for Turkey. It's like having people like that moron bishop Petar appointing his own judges in Macedonia. Both religion and secularism should always be respected, and Turkey has shown that it can work, at least up until now.
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Buktop
                Member
                • Oct 2009
                • 934

                #22
                Please let's not forget the role of the Turkish army as the main check and balance against such extreme Islamic reform. I suggest many of you look up the coups of 1960, 1971 and 1980.

                In the legacy of Ataturk, the Military was always left as the last form of defense, as a benevolent guardian of the Turkish people.
                "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                Never once say you walk upon your final way
                though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                Our long awaited hour will draw near
                and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                Comment

                • freifrau
                  Banned
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 89

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                  Please let's not forget the role of the Turkish army as the main check and balance against such extreme Islamic reform. I suggest many of you look up the coups of 1960, 1971 and 1980.

                  In the legacy of Ataturk, the Military was always left as the last form of defense, as a benevolent guardian of the Turkish people.

                  Army "the last form of defense" and "guardian of the people" !

                  I can only shuddle reading these!!!

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13670

                    #24
                    Where do you reside nashio? In MK or elsewhere?
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • freifrau
                      Banned
                      • Sep 2010
                      • 89

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                      Where do you reside nashio? In MK or elsewhere?
                      I live in Germany.

                      (if you are asking me )

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        #26
                        Da, spolaiti, tebe te prasvav, imame i drugi tuka sho ziveat vo Germanija. Inache, our trigger-happy Buktop is an Amerikanche
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Buktop
                          Member
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 934

                          #27
                          Originally posted by freifrau View Post
                          Army "the last form of defense" and "guardian of the people" !

                          I can only shuddle reading these!!!
                          Originally posted by SoM
                          Da, spolaiti, tebe te prasvav, imame i drugi tuka sho ziveat vo Germanija. Inache, our trigger-happy Buktop is an Amerikanche
                          As I said, read up on the bloodless coup's of 1960, 1971, and 1980. You can also ask Onur if you don't believe me.

                          Ataturk left the Army as the check and balance against Islamization, and this is direct reference from Turkish authorities.
                          "I'm happy to answer any question and I don't hide from that"

                          Never once say you walk upon your final way
                          though skies of steel obscure the blue of day.
                          Our long awaited hour will draw near
                          and our footsteps will thunder - We are Here!

                          Comment

                          • Onur
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2010
                            • 2389

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                            The point you made earlier was significant, Onur, in that the more educated and liberal types from the west of Turkey are against Erdogan's Islamist policies, whereas the more conservative and, dare I say, ignorant in the east are for him. Perhaps this is why he is so sympathetic to Kurds?
                            Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                            I suspect whatever love he has for the Kurds comes directly from the USA thumbprint on his forehead.

                            Both of you are %100 right.

                            SOM, i hope we will manage to open the eyes of these rural people in Turkey and think as you are here.

                            RTG, yes he is showing sympathy for the Kurds just because Obama asks him to do so. This suits to the US policy of Iraq and brings more votes to the Erdogan. Useful for both of them.





                            Originally posted by freifrau View Post
                            Army "the last form of defense" and "guardian of the people" !

                            I can only shuddle reading these!!!
                            In your country, usually the most ignorant ones wants to be an officer in your army cuz it`s the last resort for them since they are not capable of doing anything else BUT in my country, the most intelligent ones aims to join the Turkish army cuz the army is always considered as the most respected institution of Turkey by the majority of Turkish people in every polls and trust indexes. When this is the case here, then ofc our army official`s opinions regarded as important here.

                            This is the way it is here and it didn't change for more than 1000 years. I don't expect you to understand this since it`s totally different mentality than yours.


                            Some NO voters are in some kind of panic here because the era of military coups is over for more than 30 years. It`s not possible anymore and now these people thinks like "OMG, islamists can do whatever they want now". Maybe they can lift the ban for hijab now like the Germany and all other EU countries but we are still %43 here and we wont let them do more than this.





                            Originally posted by Buktop View Post
                            As I said, read up on the bloodless coup's of 1960, 1971, and 1980. You can also ask Onur if you don't believe me.

                            Ataturk left the Army as the check and balance against Islamization, and this is direct reference from Turkish authorities.
                            Thats true. Maybe not the "balance" anymore but sometimes you need that "check" when you are surrounded by extremist middle-eastern puppet states and the USA who prefers to see you as an undemocratic state.
                            Last edited by Onur; 09-14-2010, 07:16 AM.

                            Comment

                            • freifrau
                              Banned
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 89

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Onur View Post

                              This is the way it is here and it didn't change for more than 1000 years. I don't expect you to understand this since it`s totally different mentality than yours.

                              Well Germany used to be maybe the most militarized spot on Earth (Medieval times,Prussia,Kaiser's era-WWI,Nationalsozialismus era) ...
                              so it used to be like that here too for 1000 years.

                              I am really glad it is not anymore...and i wouldn't be proud if it was otherwise.

                              Comment

                              • freifrau
                                Banned
                                • Sep 2010
                                • 89

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                                Da, spolaiti, tebe te prasvav, imame i drugi tuka sho ziveat vo Germanija. Inache, our trigger-happy Buktop is an Amerikanche

                                I am not a Macedonian Soldier of Macedon
                                i have already introduced myself in the topic for newbis

                                I am still ashamed that i can understand only the greeting, since i have spent some 4 months total in your beautiful country.
                                Unfortunately i was quiet lazy to learn more.
                                Besides most of the time i spent it in a couple of villages near Debar, so people were speaking primarily Albanian.

                                I know it would be really useful to learn.... some Macedonian friends told me that when someone learns Macedonian,it is really easy to learn other Slavic languages.
                                Something like a key language for the slavic family.
                                Is it true?
                                (sorry for the off topic )

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