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Old 08-03-2020, 02:24 AM   #11
Liberator of Makedonija
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There may have been a couple of Muslim komiti, I think the majority were employed in "legal" services or were weaponsmiths who knowingly sold to the organisation
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:55 AM   #12
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There may have been a couple of Muslim komiti....
The authorities in Macedonia have, over the years, gone to great pains to highlight aspects of ethnic diversity, especially when it comes to events related to statehood. For example, they don't seem to mind stretching the truth when it comes to ethnic Albanian support for an independent Macedonia. I am sure they wouldn't have missed the opportunity to promote a Muslim member of the Macedonian Revolutionary Organisation if they were of any particular significance. Maybe there were some who saw an opportunity to benefit financially or others who were downtrodden peasants and had an axe to grind against their co-religionists, but aside from that, very few Muslims would've contemplated joining the MRO given its objectives, especially since it was a movement dominated by Christians.

The MRO did receive the sympathy of some people belonging to other ethnic groups and a few would've no doubt provided assistance (for various reasons) in terms of communications, logistics, funding and the procurement of weapons. However, those that fought and died for a Macedonia that would be free from Ottoman rule were overwhelmingly Macedonians. Aside from a valiant and notable contribution of Vlachs, there were only a small handful from other ethnic groups that risked their lives to fight alongside the Macedonians. Perhaps this is because the Macedonians and Vlachs were largely Christian whereas most other peoples in Macedonia at the time were predominantly Muslim. The ideals of the MRO were noble, perhaps too noble. Despite their repeated efforts to appeal to a broader audience by citing brotherhood, love for the fatherland, liberation, etc., their ideals were never adopted by sizeable amounts of people outside of the Macedonian and Vlach communities in Macedonia - and even there they ran into some issues because of the vicious propaganda of the foreign states.
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:47 PM   #13
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I am inclined to agree - the only other ethnicity that joined the ranks of the organisation in any significant number were the Vlachs
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Old 08-04-2020, 02:01 AM   #14
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About the Vlachs, without getting too far off topic, do you think they believed in the organisation and Ilinden as being a national movement for Macedonians? Or did they see it solely as a liberation movement? Check out this piece of fiction from a Greek Vlach, Vassilis Nitsiakos, taken from https://www.facebook.com/20823645518...2389289170628/ It’s the translation from Greek offered by Facebook.

Quote:
Fantastic Dialogue with Pitu Guli

- Lale Pitou, I take the liberty all these years later and where you are in the pantheon of heroes for two nation states to ask you, since you attract your origin from Grammousta, where my father grandmother Theology Tsakali came from. So tell me why did you go out to the branch and sacrifice in 1903 in that rebellion that led to the one week's republic of Krousovo, this Vlach state that gave birth to you?
- Do they really think I'm a hero? Who?
- Yes both Bulgarians and Northern Macedonian or, if you prefer, plain Macedonians.
- North Macedonian? What are they?
- Didn't you learn? That's what they've been called a year after an agreement made between Greece and the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia in Prespes...
- I don't understand. Bulgarians are ok. Then the majority were in our area. We Vlachs used to call them ′′ Vurgar ′′ and we were all Orthodox Christians in the same millet, the Rum. In Krusovo there were no of them then. We were all Vlachs and a Mahalas Arvanites, Christian Orthodox too. Macedonia had of all. Every walnut walnut. We split up with religion. On the one hand, the Ottoman conquerors and on the other, all of us ′′ giaourdes ′′ of Rum millet. But even the Ottomans split in two. To the bae and landowners on the one hand and on the other to the poor farmers. There were of course Christians rich, but these were mostly traders.
We all the inhabitants of Macedonia rose up against oppression and exploitation by the first to drink the blood not only of Christians but also Muslims, Turks. This is why in the declaration we called all the oppressed regardless of breed and religion....
- So, lale, it wasn't a national revolution?
- I don't know what this is. I know that we rose up for justice and freedom and said ′′ freedom or death ".
And we left all the differences we had, Patriarchal, exarchists, gracomans etc., all together for the common purpose that was to liberate our patroa land that was Macedonia. That's why we all did the Organization together, to send away the beys and agades who sucked our blood and live together in a free Macedonia.
- Lale, now there are two states that claim you as their own national heroes and you and all your competitors. The people say that you got the guns for Great Bulgaria and those for Macedonia. The second ones define Macedonia in terms of national and consider your rebellion as their national revolution the Macedonian Nation Revolution...
- What? Did it become a Macedonian nation? I didn't learn that. We were talking about the inhabitants of Macedonia regardless of breed and religion. We wanted a Macedonia free and democratic, where all teams would enjoy the same rights, there would be equality and equality. Burgars, Aromuns, Arvanites, Jews, Mohamethans, Gypsies, all...
- Now, Lale, they present you as a Bulgarian friend. Were you really like that?
- I was with all the wronged and oppressed, with freedom, equality and justice. I was Aromounos Christian Orthodox, this was my identity. But my ideas didn't allow me to make such distinctions. The social revolution was ahead of us. We were socialists. Do you understand? That was the criteria, we would find the others later. Our struggle was class and classes at the time mostly had a religious sign, although several Christians played the game of tyrants and had fun....
- Lale, one last question, why am I tired of you. The Vlachs, the Aromounoi, what did they have in all of them?
Look at this, child. A large part of the Vlachs, especially in the cities and Krusovo itself, were oriented towards Greece due to the influence of the Patriarchate and Greek Education that dominated at the time in all Balkans. The others in the villages depending on the influences. As they did not yet have a crystallized identity beyond the Orthodox Christianity, they were facing various propaganda several times. Many villages were divided for this reason...
We wanted unity against the oppressors who were the Ottoman beys and agades and their minions... What else can I tell you? Now all that you tell me about heroes and states that make use of our own rebellion is none of my business where i am.
- Lale Pitu, thank you so much!
https://el.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%...8D%CE%BB%CE%B9
We are constantly being denationalised. In this case, Ilinden is being denationalised. I’m quite sure this bloke also believes that promoting one’s “national” (ie “ethnic”) identity in Greece only serves to undermine the Greek state, and that “cultural” identity instead should be respected. In other words, it’s ok to be a Vlach in Greece as a cultural/secondary notion to being Greek first and foremost. And don’t tell him you’re a Macedonian because that undermines Greece and what it is to be a Greek. Be a proud Slav-speaking Greek. And further if I’m not mistaken, the Arvanites are a cultural phenomenon cultivated by the glory of Greece.
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Old 08-04-2020, 07:45 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by sydney View Post
About the Vlachs, without getting too far off topic, do you think they believed in the organisation and Ilinden as being a national movement for Macedonians? Or did they see it solely as a liberation movement?.
I don't think the two points need to be mutually exclusive. The majority of the MRO members and leaders were Macedonians. The movement was created by them. Obviously the Vlachs were aware of these facts yet still participated in a substantial way because the ideals of the MRO were inclusive. Many of their ancestors, previously driven out of their homes by Muslim Albanians in Epirus and elsewhere, had found 'relative' safety among fellow Christians in Macedonia. Perhaps that may have contributed to their affinity for the country and bond with the existing population. They learned to speak the local language without much difficulty and intermixed with Macedonians. Given the presence and rapacious activities of so many Ottoman Muslims (Turks/Albanians), it is likely that many Macedonians welcomed an increase of the Christian element. Some divisions became more pronounced after the Exarchate was created, as many of the Vlachs (and Macedonians to a lesser degree) remained with the Patriarchate. However, there is an important caveat - many of the patriarchist Vlachs still supported the MRO in Kruševo.

People have differing perspectives on nationalism in the Balkans during the late Ottoman era. Some believe that national identities were created during this period whereas others feel that existing identities were rejuvenated after centuries of oppression. Irrespective, there are a couple of certainties. Macedonians were the only people to espouse or assert a Macedonian ethno-linguistic identity and a Macedonian national identity. The only other group of people living in Macedonia at the time that adopted a Macedonian national identity, to an extent, were the Vlachs, which was no doubt facilitated by their common religion (sect affiliation aside). Therefore, I think Vlachs saw it as a liberation movement that was mostly led by Macedonians but for the benefit of all peoples in Macedonia. Over the years, many Vlachs have progressed from integration to assimilation because of social circumstances (intermarriage, relocation to larger cities, etc.). However, the fact that the Vlach contribution to Macedonia is celebrated and their language and ethnic identity continues to exist is in many ways tied to the ideals of the MRO.

Compare that to the official policy of Greece and their treatment of Vlachs (and other minorities such as Macedonians and Albanians). Now, many of the descendants of such people who were denied their individuality are brainwashed beyond repair and pretend to be rabid Greeks themselves. Which leads to people like that moron who created the fictional dialogue with one of the most popular icons of the MRO. Pitu Guli fought and died for a free Macedonia. In that free Macedonia, he would have had a Macedonian national identity whilst having the right to retain his officially recognised ethnic identity, just like the Vlachs in Macedonia today. If he had the misfortune of being in the service of Greece, few people would even know he was a Vlach and his descendants wouldn't have received state support to learn their language or hear it regularly in the media like they do in Macedonia. He was a leader of a movement which went by the creeds "liberty or death" and "Macedonia for the Macedonians". Aside from a few anecdotal examples, the only people who believed in that were the ethnic Macedonians and ethnic Vlachs. As such, Pitu Guli is a Macedonian national hero and no amount of bizarre Greek yearning for more Vlach souls will ever change that fact.
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