Ancient Balkan Languages - Proto Slavic Words

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here is something else that is interesting about Thracian placenames, this time with regard to the suffix 'diza' which has evolved into Slavic 'itsa', again, the 'd' is dropped. In ancient times it seems to be largely present in eastern Thrace, and given its widespread use in varying degrees among the Slavic languages, the particular tribes that employed such names more frequently are likely to have spread from this area originally.

Thracian (Most are likely to have appeared on record in the 'Hellenized' form, ie; 'os' suffix):

Tyrodiza, Kistidiza, Tarpodiza, Beodiza, Ostudiza, Bortudiza

Slavic:

Strumitsa, Bistritsa, Belitsa, Banska Stiavnitsa, Koprivnitsa, Virovititsa

[Soldier of Macedon]

From the first post on this thread, in relation to the suffix 'diza':

Diza (Fortified settlement in Thracian)
Dzid (Wall in Macedonian)

The probable assumption that 'diza' meant a 'settlement' seems to derive from its use as a suffix in Thracian placenames. It is interesting to see how it still relates to Slavic words in variants.

Of all the ancient languages that were related to Slavic, Thracian has the most to offer in terms of evidence and conclusive links.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The word for 'language' in Greek is Glossa (Γλώσσα), whereas the word for 'voice' in Macedonian and Slavic in general is Glas (Глас), while in Russian it is Golos (Голос).

There must be a relation between these two words as 'language' and 'voice' can both be in reference to speech. Given that all of the Slavic languages employ this word, it cannot be a loan from Greek.

[makedonin]

The word for 'language' in Greek is Glossa (Γλώσσα), whereas the word for 'voice' in Macedonian and Slavic in general is Glas (Глас), while in Russian it is Golos (Голос).

There must be a relation between these two words as 'language' and 'voice' can both be in reference to speech. Given that all of the Slavic languages employ this word, it cannot be a loan from Greek.

Ancient Hellenes used Φονη > Fone for language, while in Modern Greek it means voice.

The word φονη actually meant language, as can be seen in the example in the Drama Agamemnon written by Aeschylus where written:
αγνωτα φονην βαρβαρον -> the unknown barbarian language.
The same word for language is written by Xenophon in his Kunegetikos 2.3
where he says: φονην Ηελληνα -> the Hellenic language.

References:

A Greek English lexicon / comp. by Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott. Rev. and augmented throughout by Henry Stuart Jones . - New (9.) ed., reprint, with a supplement . - Oxford : Clarendon Press , 1968 . - Getr. [Bearb.]

[Soldier of Macedon]

So if Glossa means 'language' in modern Greek, what did it mean in ancient Greek?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Pulpudeva, Zisnudeva, Cumudeva, Markodava, Pelendova, Giridava, Sucidava, Predava, Tyrodiza, Kistidiza, Tarpodiza, Beodiza, Ostudiza, Bortudiza.......................

[makedonin]

So if Glossa means 'language' in modern Greek, what did it mean in ancient Greek?

It had various meanings:

γλῶσσα, Ion. γλάσσα, Herod. 3.84, al., SIG 1002.7 (Milet.), Schwyzer 692 (Chios), Att. γλῶττα, ης, ἡ, tongue, Od. 3.332, etc.

b γ. λάρυγγος, = γλωττίς, larynx, Gal. UP 7.13.

2 tongue, as the organ of speech, γλώσσης χάριν through love of talking, Hes. Op. 709, A. Ch. 266; γλώσσῃ ματαίᾳ Id. Pr. 331, cf. Eu. 830; γλώσσης ἀκρατής Id. Pr. 884 (lyr.); μεγάλης γ. κόμποι S. Ant. 128; γλώσσῃ δεινός, θρασύς, Id. OC 806, Aj. 1142; ἡ γ. ὀμώμοχ' ἡ δὲ φρὴν ἀνώμοτος E. Hipp. 612: with Preps., ἀπὸ γλώσσης by frankness of speech, Thgn. 63; φθέγγεσθαι Pi. O. 6.13 (but ἀπὸ γ. ληίσσεται, opp. χερσὶ βίῃ, of fraud opp. violence, Hes. Op. 322); also, by word of mouth, Hdt. 1.123, Th. 7.10, Arr. An. 2.14.1; τῷ νῷ θ' ὁμοίως κἀπὸ τῆς γ. λέγω S. OC 936; τὰ γλώσσης ἄπο, i.e. our words, E. Ba. 1049; ἀπὸ γ. φράσω by heart, opp. γράμμασιν, Cratin. 122; οὐκ ἀπὸ γλώσσης not from mere word of mouth, but after full argument, A. Ag. 813; μὴ διὰ γλώσσης without using the tongue, E. Supp. 112; ἐν ὄμμασιν . . δεδορκὼς κοὐ κατὰ γλῶσσαν κλύων S. Tr. 747:—phrases: πᾶσαν γλῶτταν βασάνιζε try every art of tongue, Ar. V. 547; πᾶσαν ἱέναι γλῶσσαν let loose one's whole tongue, speak withoutrestraint, S. El. 596; πολλὴν γ. ἐγχέας μάτην Id. Fr. 929; κακὰ γ. slander, Pi. P. 4.283: pl., ἐν κερτομίοις γλώσσαις, i.e. with blasphemies, S. Ant. 962 (lyr.), cf. Aj. 199 (lyr.): βοῦς, κ ῇς ἐπὶ γλώσσῃ, v. βοῦς, κλείς.

3 of persons, one who is all tongue, speaker, of Pericles, μεγίστη γ. τῶν Ἑλληνίδων Cratin. 293, cf. Ar. Fr. 629 (s. v. l.).

4 ἡ γ. τοῦ ταμιείου the advocacy of the fiscus, Philostr. VS 2.29.

II language, ἄλλη δ' ἄλλων γ. μεμιγμένη Od. 19.175, cf. Il. 2.804; γλῶσσαν ἱέναι speak a language or dialect, Hdt. 1.57; γ. Ἑλληνίδα, Δωρίδα ἱέναι, Id. 9.16, Th. 3.112, cf. A. Pers. 406, Ch. 564; γλῶσσαν νομίζειν Hdt. 1.142, 4.183; γλώσσῃ χρῆσθαι Id. 4.109; κατὰ τὴν ἀρχαίαν γ. Arist. Rh. 1357b10; dialect, ἡ Ἀττικὴ γ. Demetr. Eloc. 177; but also Δωρὶς διάλεκτος μία ὑφ' ἥν εἰσι γ. πολλαί Tryph. ap. Sch.D.T. p.320 H.

2 obsolete or foreign word, which needs explanation, Arist. Rh. 1410b12, Po. 1457b4, Plu. 2.406f: hence Γλῶσσαι, title of works by Philemon and others.

3 people speaking a distinct language, LX X. Ju. 3.8 (pl.), interpol. in Scyl. 15.

III anything shaped like the tongue (cf. γλῶσσαι ὡσεὶ πυρός Act.Ap. 2.3).

1 in Music, rced or tongue of a pipe, Aeschin. 3.229, Arist. HA 565a24, Thphr. HP 4.11.4, etc.

2 tongue or thong of leather, shoe-latchet, Pl.Com. 51, Aeschin.Socr. 57.

3 tongue of land, App. Pun. 121, cf. 95.

4 ingot, γ. χρυσῆ LXX Jo. 7.21.

5 marking on the liver, in divination, Hsch. (γλῶσσα from γλωχ-y[acaron], cf. γλώξ, γλωχίς; γλάσσα from ̄αστ;γλᾰχ-y[acaron], weak grade of same root.)


Reference: Liddle and Scott

[Soldier of Macedon]

The word for 'language' in Greek is Glossa (Γλώσσα), whereas the word for 'voice' in Macedonian and Slavic in general is Glas (Глас), while in Russian it is Golos (Голос).

There must be a relation between these two words as 'language' and 'voice' can both be in reference to speech. Given that all of the Slavic languages employ this word, it cannot be a loan from Greek.

In Church Slavonic, Glasu (Гласу) can mean 'voice', 'sound' or 'word'.

[Delodephius]

SoM, check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbinum

[Soldier of Macedon]

In Tsakonian, which is claimed to be a descendant of Doric, instead of Glossa they use Groussa for language, if this is a bastardisation of the former word, when did it take place?

[Spartan]

I think "Glossa" would be the bastrdization of "Groussa", if indeed Tsakonika is the older language.And if indeed Tsakonika is derived from the Dorian dialect of Greek that would make it the older language , I would think??

What do you guys think??

[Soldier of Macedon]

But Glossa is recorded in Ancient Greek texts in that form, is there any evidence of Groussa in ancient texts?

[Spartan]

Not that I know off

[osiris]

this is a fascinating subject and it intrigues and excites my curiosity great post som.

ancinet greek didnt have many sounds ir sh ch zh b

also the natural changes that sometimes occur when a word is adopted by a foreigner, look at what happens when macedonians for example twist english words. so will we ever know how those thracian words really sounded.


a greek talking to a macedonian in english

xhev u finist dzimi

don vorri jimmi everyting is orait

[Soldier of Macedon]

SoM, check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbinum

So what do you make of it Slovak? What we have here is clear evidence of a variant of the word 'Serb' recorded as early as the 2nd century. This would support the notion that the Latin word 'Serv' derives from the noun 'Serb' rather than the opposite.

How do we reconcile this with the works of Porphyrogenitus who claims that the Serbs come from White Serbia north of the Danube, centuries later?

Do we know when the word 'Serv' was first used in Latin to represent a 'Slave' or 'Servant'? Could the name have been inspired from the area where most slaves were taken from (at that point in time) by the Romans, ie; Serbinon?