Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-23-2009, 09:41 AM   #21
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,288
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Pulpudeva, Zisnudeva, Cumudeva, Markodava, Pelendova, Giridava, Sucidava, Predava, Tyrodiza, Kistidiza, Tarpodiza, Beodiza, Ostudiza, Bortudiza.......................
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 10:09 AM   #22
makedonin
Senior Member
 
makedonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,668
makedonin is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
So if Glossa means 'language' in modern Greek, what did it mean in ancient Greek?
It had various meanings:

Quote:
γλῶσσα, Ion. γλάσσα, Herod. 3.84, al., SIG 1002.7 (Milet.), Schwyzer 692 (Chios), Att. γλῶττα, ης, ἡ, tongue, Od. 3.332, etc.

b γ. λάρυγγος, = γλωττίς, larynx, Gal. UP 7.13.

2 tongue, as the organ of speech, γλώσσης χάριν through love of talking, Hes. Op. 709, A. Ch. 266; γλώσσῃ ματαίᾳ Id. Pr. 331, cf. Eu. 830; γλώσσης ἀκρατής Id. Pr. 884 (lyr.); μεγάλης γ. κόμποι S. Ant. 128; γλώσσῃ δεινός, θρασύς, Id. OC 806, Aj. 1142; ἡ γ. ὀμώμοχ' ἡ δὲ φρὴν ἀνώμοτος E. Hipp. 612: with Preps., ἀπὸ γλώσσης by frankness of speech, Thgn. 63; φθέγγεσθαι Pi. O. 6.13 (but ἀπὸ γ. ληίσσεται, opp. χερσὶ βίῃ, of fraud opp. violence, Hes. Op. 322); also, by word of mouth, Hdt. 1.123, Th. 7.10, Arr. An. 2.14.1; τῷ νῷ θ' ὁμοίως κἀπὸ τῆς γ. λέγω S. OC 936; τὰ γλώσσης ἄπο, i.e. our words, E. Ba. 1049; ἀπὸ γ. φράσω by heart, opp. γράμμασιν, Cratin. 122; οὐκ ἀπὸ γλώσσης not from mere word of mouth, but after full argument, A. Ag. 813; μὴ διὰ γλώσσης without using the tongue, E. Supp. 112; ἐν ὄμμασιν . . δεδορκὼς κοὐ κατὰ γλῶσσαν κλύων S. Tr. 747:—phrases: πᾶσαν γλῶτταν βασάνιζε try every art of tongue, Ar. V. 547; πᾶσαν ἱέναι γλῶσσαν let loose one's whole tongue, speak withoutrestraint, S. El. 596; πολλὴν γ. ἐγχέας μάτην Id. Fr. 929; κακὰ γ. slander, Pi. P. 4.283: pl., ἐν κερτομίοις γλώσσαις, i.e. with blasphemies, S. Ant. 962 (lyr.), cf. Aj. 199 (lyr.): βοῦς, κ ῇς ἐπὶ γλώσσῃ, v. βοῦς, κλείς.

3 of persons, one who is all tongue, speaker, of Pericles, μεγίστη γ. τῶν Ἑλληνίδων Cratin. 293, cf. Ar. Fr. 629 (s. v. l.).

4 ἡ γ. τοῦ ταμιείου the advocacy of the fiscus, Philostr. VS 2.29.

II language, ἄλλη δ' ἄλλων γ. μεμιγμένη Od. 19.175, cf. Il. 2.804; γλῶσσαν ἱέναι speak a language or dialect, Hdt. 1.57; γ. Ἑλληνίδα, Δωρίδα ἱέναι, Id. 9.16, Th. 3.112, cf. A. Pers. 406, Ch. 564; γλῶσσαν νομίζειν Hdt. 1.142, 4.183; γλώσσῃ χρῆσθαι Id. 4.109; κατὰ τὴν ἀρχαίαν γ. Arist. Rh. 1357b10; dialect, ἡ Ἀττικὴ γ. Demetr. Eloc. 177; but also Δωρὶς διάλεκτος μία ὑφ' ἥν εἰσι γ. πολλαί Tryph. ap. Sch.D.T. p.320 H.

2 obsolete or foreign word, which needs explanation, Arist. Rh. 1410b12, Po. 1457b4, Plu. 2.406f: hence Γλῶσσαι, title of works by Philemon and others.

3 people speaking a distinct language, LX X. Ju. 3.8 (pl.), interpol. in Scyl. 15.

III anything shaped like the tongue (cf. γλῶσσαι ὡσεὶ πυρός Act.Ap. 2.3).

1 in Music, rced or tongue of a pipe, Aeschin. 3.229, Arist. HA 565a24, Thphr. HP 4.11.4, etc.

2 tongue or thong of leather, shoe-latchet, Pl.Com. 51, Aeschin.Socr. 57.

3 tongue of land, App. Pun. 121, cf. 95.

4 ingot, γ. χρυσῆ LXX Jo. 7.21.

5 marking on the liver, in divination, Hsch. (γλῶσσα from γλωχ-y[acaron], cf. γλώξ, γλωχίς; γλάσσα from ̄αστ;γλᾰχ-y[acaron], weak grade of same root.)


Reference: Liddle and Scott
__________________
To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.
makedonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 11:06 AM   #23
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,288
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
The word for 'language' in Greek is Glossa (Γλώσσα), whereas the word for 'voice' in Macedonian and Slavic in general is Glas (Глас), while in Russian it is Golos (Голос).

There must be a relation between these two words as 'language' and 'voice' can both be in reference to speech. Given that all of the Slavic languages employ this word, it cannot be a loan from Greek.
In Church Slavonic, Glasu (Гласу) can mean 'voice', 'sound' or 'word'.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 02:39 PM   #24
Delodephius
Member
 
Delodephius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Petrovecz Baciensis, Res Publica Iazygia
Posts: 736
Delodephius is on a distinguished road
Default

SoM, check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbinum
__________________
अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.
Delodephius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 04:20 PM   #25
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,288
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default



In Tsakonian, which is claimed to be a descendant of Doric, instead of Glossa they use Groussa for language, if this is a bastardisation of the former word, when did it take place?
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 05:03 PM   #26
Spartan
Senior Member
 
Spartan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,037
Spartan is on a distinguished road
Default

I think "Glossa" would be the bastrdization of "Groussa", if indeed Tsakonika is the older language.And if indeed Tsakonika is derived from the Dorian dialect of Greek that would make it the older language , I would think??

What do you guys think??
Spartan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2009, 11:14 PM   #27
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,288
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

But Glossa is recorded in Ancient Greek texts in that form, is there any evidence of Groussa in ancient texts?
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 02:26 AM   #28
Spartan
Senior Member
 
Spartan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,037
Spartan is on a distinguished road
Default

Not that I know off
Spartan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 03:09 AM   #29
osiris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,969
osiris is on a distinguished road
Default

this is a fascinating subject and it intrigues and excites my curiosity great post som.

ancinet greek didnt have many sounds ir sh ch zh b

also the natural changes that sometimes occur when a word is adopted by a foreigner, look at what happens when macedonians for example twist english words. so will we ever know how those thracian words really sounded.


a greek talking to a macedonian in english

xhev u finist dzimi

don vorri jimmi everyting is orait

Last edited by osiris; 01-24-2009 at 03:14 AM.
osiris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2009, 04:19 AM   #30
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,288
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
So what do you make of it Slovak? What we have here is clear evidence of a variant of the word 'Serb' recorded as early as the 2nd century. This would support the notion that the Latin word 'Serv' derives from the noun 'Serb' rather than the opposite.

How do we reconcile this with the works of Porphyrogenitus who claims that the Serbs come from White Serbia north of the Danube, centuries later?

Do we know when the word 'Serv' was first used in Latin to represent a 'Slave' or 'Servant'? Could the name have been inspired from the area where most slaves were taken from (at that point in time) by the Romans, ie; Serbinon?
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump