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Old 10-27-2008, 03:27 AM   #31
osiris
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us football when they get to use their feet maybe once a game, hey you can have both the winners and the losers strips svoliani you need them to truly define yourself .
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Old 11-21-2008, 08:46 AM   #32
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Default Is Greece planning to annex all of Macedonia sometime in the future?

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Risto Stefov
November 21, 2008

The "Megali idea" died with Greeceīs failure to annex Turkish territories in the 1920īs but did it really die or did it just go into hibernation waiting for the right time to come about?

Since 1991 when the Republic of Macedonia declared its independence from Yugoslavia Greece has been acting kind of strange. For example it has been saying Macedonians donīt exist, Macedonia is Greek, Skopjans have territorial pretensions on the so-called "Greek-Macedonia", Skopjans are trying to steal Greek history and so on. We all know that most of what the Greeks are saying is not possible but none the less Greeks are still saying them but are we interpreting them correctly?

When the Greeks say "Macedonians do not exist" what do they really mean?

If Macedonians donīt exist then what are the majority of people who live in the Republic of Macedonia? We have been thinking that the reason Greece says Macedonians donīt exist is to cover up the fact that Greece does not want the world to know that Macedonians live in Greece. But what if that is not all the Greeks are saying?

When the Greeks say "Macedonia is Greek" what do they really mean?

We all know 51% of geographical and historic Macedonia was annexed by Greece in 1913 and no one has any doubt that Greece has a pretty strong grasp on it today. So when Greeks say Macedonia is Greek do they really mean the part of Macedonia they already have is Greek or 49% of the part they donīt have is Greek? When the Greeks say Macedonia is Greek we think they mean the part they already have but what if we are wrong and the Greeks really mean the part that they donīt have, especially the Republic of Macedonia? Besides why would they say anything about a part that is already Greek?

When the Greeks say "Skopjans have territorial pretensions on the so-called Greek-Macedonia what do they really mean?

As JS Gandeto puts it in his article "Anatomy of a bankrupt ideology" published in the American Chronicle on November 11th, 2008 at this link; http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/81091 "For example they [Greeks] claim that Republic of Macedonia, with 7,000 lightly armed soldiers, has territorial aspirations towards Greece with more then 250,000 soldiers armed with the latest military hardware, purchased from Russia and France with European dollars, when in fact it was the Greek army displaying her military might by holding military exercise in Northern Greece where the predominant population of the region is ethnic Macedonians". We say thatīs impossible! But what if the Greeks really want to annex the Republic of Macedonia and are using this as an excuse, a pretext if you like to strike at Macedonia first presumably before Macedonia becomes powerful and strikes at Greece first?

The above mentioned Greek claims may not mean much separately and one by one but when you put them together then a pattern begins to emerge.



"There are no Macedonians therefore the Skopjans are not Macedonian and if the Skopjans are not Macedonian they cannot lay claim to Macedonian lands."

"Macedonia is Greek therefore the only Macedonians that exist are Greeks and since part of Macedonia is Greek then it only makes sense that all of Macedonia is Greek and should be annexed by Greece."

If I were selfish and well versed in "Greek logic" I too would not be beyond in thinking along these lines.

So what does this really mean?

The way I see it today Greece is at the crossroads of its existence. The rebirth of a Macedonian state has placed it in an awkward position. Itīs only a matter of time before the world finds out that the creation of the Modern Greek state was based on a myth and at the expense of other ethnic groups; one being the Macedonians. If Greece recognizes the existence of a Macedonian ethnic state and a Macedonian ethnic identity its own fabricated identity will unravel. So Greece has two choices; (1) allow itself to fall apart, which I am sure is unacceptable to Greece or (2) take measures to prevent its secret from being discovered. Time will tell which way this will go but we cannot preclude the possibility that Greece will not give up without a fight. My guess is Greece will attempt to save itself by endeavoring to silence the Macedonian people.

Its first attempt at silencing the Macedonian people, which is currently ongoing, is to prohibit them from naming their state Macedonia. Greek logic dictates that if there is no Macedonia there can be no Macedonian ethnic identity! Thus the reason for the so-called "name dispute".

Failing that Greece will attempt to annex the Republic of Macedonia (Mitsotakis almost did it if only Milosovich agreed) and do to the Macedonian people there as it did to the Macedonian people inside Greece by first prohibiting them to speak their Macedonian language and then by renaming every Macedonian personīs name and every place-name with Greek names. Several generations later the Republic of Macedonia will be Greece and inhabited by pure Greeks, descendents of the Ancient Greeks. Greece is an expert on doing this. It has done it before and it will do it again. Those who donīt agree with Greeceīs policy can leave and go to Canada, the USA and Australia. But before Greece attempts to exercise this option I hope it will remember the outcome of its first attempt at the "Megali idea". Then it lost the war and the lands it never had but this time it may lose more.

Desperate people will do desperate things at desperate times and some Greeks are not beyond that! So what are we to do?

One thing we can do is be very vigilant and never take things for granted, even when they sound ridiculous.

You can contact the author at rstefov@hotmail.com
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/82215

great work @RISTE
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Old 12-29-2008, 12:38 AM   #33
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Greece is not planning on annexing, invading, bombing, killing, attacking, or terrorizing any of its neighbors. The reason why Greece is so heavily armed for a nation of 11 million is only to be used as a deterrent in case 8 times larger Turkey decides to act militarily against Greece in the Aegean or Thrace.

The role of the Greek armed forces is defensive and only to protect the territorial integrity against any threats. That's pretty much it...

Greece has much more to gain from investing in Albania, Macedonia, and Bulgaria than taking over some poor guy's farm across the border.
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Old 12-29-2008, 12:57 AM   #34
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Greece has much more to gain from investing in Albania, Macedonia, and Bulgaria than taking over some poor guy's farm across the border.
I agree.
So why wouldn't Greece affirm that position by amending its constitution to remove any potential territorial claims? Like Macedonia has.
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:01 AM   #35
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Quote:
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I agree.
So why wouldn't Greece affirm that position by amending its constitution to remove any potential territorial claims? Like Macedonia has.
Risto,

Which paragraph in the Greek constitution makes irredentist claims against our neighbors?
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Old 12-29-2008, 02:27 AM   #36
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Risto,

Which paragraph in the Greek constitution makes irredentist claims against our neighbors?
No, no ... they should denounce any territorial claims in the future. This is what Macedonia was forced to do. Greece should do the same in the interest of neighbourly goodwill.
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Old 12-29-2008, 03:56 AM   #37
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an overwhelming majority of greeks that i have met would gladly welcome greece expanding its borders. the neo hellenic identity is built on aspiring to hellas macedonia and the roman empire as their exclusive legacy and to reclaim polis and the turkish and black sea coats is their nations latent territorial fantasy.

asking greeks to give up on polis ,are you kidding they would rather give up their native cultures instead, as indeed they have.
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Old 12-29-2008, 04:32 AM   #38
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Are we afraid?NO!!Let them comme,that is not so simple,JNA was the powerfull army on Balkans,and they lose evry where,you know when you are your home,you have prety much advance,Slovenes forced them to pull back,also Croats,they only succed where Serb population was,any way,not only Greece also Bajgania and Šiptaria have apetites,but if one strikes,they all do,and the world will watch wright?
Do you guys know how many of us live in European Countreis?Ambassady boom maybe?

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Old 12-29-2008, 07:15 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
No, no ... they should denounce any territorial claims in the future. This is what Macedonia was forced to do. Greece should do the same in the interest of neighbourly goodwill.
Greece does not have any territorial claims or ambitions in any official capacity. The posture of all our branches of the military is purely defensive in nature.

Realistically speaking, what would we have to gain by invading another much poorer country in the Balkans? Albania, Macedonia, and Bulgaria are many times more poorer than Greece both on a GDP and per capita level. The Greek economy is a service oriented economy and gaining farmlands is of little or no consequence to us.

There are no major Greek populations living outside of Greece except in the region of Northern Epirus, but most have left and come to Greece to enjoy a better standard of living.
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Old 12-29-2008, 07:34 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Demos View Post
Greece does not have any territorial claims or ambitions in any official capacity. The posture of all our branches of the military is purely defensive in nature.

Realistically speaking, what would we have to gain by invading another much poorer country in the Balkans? Albania, Macedonia, and Bulgaria are many times more poorer than Greece both on a GDP and per capita level. The Greek economy is a service oriented economy and gaining farmlands is of little or no consequence to us.

There are no major Greek populations living outside of Greece except in the region of Northern Epirus, but most have left and come to Greece to enjoy a better standard of living.
With no claims, it should be really easy to amend its constitution in a similar fashion to Macedonia's.
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