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#1 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 288
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![]() Would anyone know if this is real? Apparently it's from the ilinden organization and I think it was published in Sofia in 1923...
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#2 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 153
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![]() Dropping the image into google, the only pages that come up as using it are 3 twitter pages, this thread and another forum thread that got it from the wikipedia page on the Illinden organization, saying it's from the 1920s.
That thread actually has a bunch other interesting images related to the Illinden organization so here's a link: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...Sofia-Bulgaria For further details you might have to make an account on that forum and ask the members who posted there. It's not on the wikipedia page cited anymore and there doesn't seem to be much of an online record of it so it probably came from a scanned historical document that doesn't display in google's image search algorithm. |
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 288
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![]() I've never seen most of those images... Very interesting.
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#4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,379
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![]() Well it looks authentic.
__________________
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented. |
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#5 |
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Canada
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![]() Most of the other forum's images seem to be from illustrated calendars and postcards issued by the Ilinden organization.
I did the same thing with those images as I did with the one you initially posted and found a version of the first two without the alamy watermarks: ![]() ![]() Alamy stock photos has a fair few historical images in the results for Illinden: http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/ilinden.html Basically if the alamy watermarks are too bothersome you can take the pictures there, drag and drop them into google images and then grab a better version from among the results. If you can't copy paste it from the site or don't want to go to it, you can drag and drop the image next to the link into a new tab and you'll have it as a google image result, where you can click view image to get an idea of the full size, like I did with the image below. ![]() Back to the image you first posted, I can't quite tell which historical Macedonians are pictured on the bottom, though the first three portraits seem to be saints Cyril and Methodius, saint Clement and Basil II, while Gotse Delchev is the 6th: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Something I noticed while trying to find a depiction of Cyril and Methodius where both their beards were dark is that the Macedonian sun is in the background of their portrait. I can't make out the signature but it definitely says 1923 in the lower right corner of the image above the portraits. You might be able to find a matching, more legible signature on other images. Between the 5 places it shows up in google, it'd have to be posted independently at least two-three of those times without knowledge of the other postings which seem to agree on its origins. Also that's a lion on the shield right? And the Phrygian helmet is noteworthy as well. The throne has lions engraved on the armrests and eagles sitting on the back. The chainmail seems anachronistic though. |
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#6 | |||
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Join Date: Jan 2015
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![]() Thanks Starling, really informative^
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Last edited by maco2envy; 11-28-2017 at 05:35 AM. |
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#7 | |||
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Canada
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Reminds me of of the nine worthies, where a bunch of historical figures were styled like knights despite not looking anything like one and the concept of chivalry being a recent invention. ![]() ![]() ![]() Pretty much every depiction of the nine worthies seems to be different, though not all of the group ones specify who's who. That middle one makes him look like Philip but the elephant's a nice way to make him seem grander than Hector and Cesar. This Marko? ![]() ![]() ![]() He was mostly just a vassal king to the northern parts of Macedonia around Prilep and obligated to fight with the Turks and a devout christian who asked for forgiveness on his deathbed. I guess they put him in there because of all the legends and epic poetry that was made about him afterwards. Seems like his legend rivals Alexander's and fits well into the narrative of fighting for Macedonian independence. I'd love to read up on him as a folk hero. The sun can be seen on his buttons in the first portrait and on his clothes in the church fresco, though the rounded quality makes them look like flowers. Interesting that he seems to be holding his mace like a scepter in the first image. As with Hercules' club, maces seem to have been weaponized scepters that retained the symbolic meaning of power an authority to an extent. Any idea who the other 4 are? They seem to be in chronological order so if Marko Krale (1335-1395) is the 4th and Gotse Delchev (1872-1903) is the 6th, then the person in the 5th portrait would've lived in the time in between. The image was published in 1923 so the last 3 would have to be known figures before that point and be contemporaries of Delchev within the organization. |
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#8 | |
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After Goce Delchev comes Dame Gruev, founder of IMRO. After Dame comes Boris Sarafov. I can't get a good look at the last's face. Last edited by vicsinad; 11-28-2017 at 09:34 PM. |
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#9 |
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Join Date: May 2011
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![]() The last is Anastas Jankov, another leader of the External SMAC group. Died 1906. He had run into conflicts with IMRO a lot before and after Ilinden Revolution. Despite his negative interactions with IMRO, he did say some things about Macedonian identity:
"I am not a Bulgarian, but a Macedonian and I wish for Macedonia to have freedom and self-government. This is the goal of all true Macedonians ... We Macedonians are able to raise an uprising in Macedonia to reassure the Great Powers that have signed the Berlin Treaty that they should fulfill what they have promised to Christians in European Turkey, but we are not alone let's do it ... We must especially hurry to do this before Serbia and Bulgaria agree on Macedonia. This agreement, in my opinion, would be fatal for the Macedonians, because Bulgaria and Serbia, after they settle for our homeland, will divide Macedonia and those parts will join their own states. " From "Stampa", December 1, 1903. In 1902, he said: "Macedonians! Remember the world's winner, the great glory of Macedonia, the great Alexander of Macedon; Remember for the brave King Samoil, the Macedonian giant, for the marvelous Marko Kral, the Slavic glory, that Macedonian blood flowed through them; those of heavenly heights watch and bless our initiated work. To show worthy descendants of their descendants: to preserve their glorious names and to amaze the world with our courage, dexterity and self-sacrifice; to cut off from us the shameful yoke that suffocates us for five centuries." |
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#10 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Canada
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To continue my trend of posting pictures of the revolutionaries: Trajko Kitanchev ![]() Dame Gruev Boris Sarafov ![]() ![]() Anastas Jankov ![]() Another postcard: ![]() Found another potentially useful site: http://macedoniandocuments.blogspot....ame-gruev.html So that's the full set with either the exact portraits used or a very similar picture and pretty much all the info available regarding the image. Barring finding a physical copy or the issue it was published in there's not much else to do unless adding more images relating to the Ilinden Organization in general. |
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