United Macedonia Diaspora

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8531

    Originally posted by UMDiaspora.org View Post
    Everything in that article was a statement of fact.

    "The Republic of Macedonia has always taken the position that it does not hold exclusive rights over the name Macedonia in geographic, cultural, historic, or commercial terms."

    This is actually a joint MHRMI-UMD talking point when attending the meeting with Ambassador Nimitz in 2005 and 2007, and nothing more than a statement of fact. Read press release by UMD and MHRMI: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/12/9/
    Meto,

    Is it also a statement of "fact" that Macedonia is willing to compromise on its name?

    Which Macedonians (other than UMD and our vassal politicians) do you know of that do not claim exlcusive rights to the name Macedonia?

    I think its time you revisit your "facts" and stop confusing "fact" with your opinion.
    Last edited by Vangelovski; 11-10-2010, 05:12 PM.
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

    Comment

    • Pelister
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 2742

      Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
      Meto,

      Is it also a statement of "fact" that Macedonia is willing to compromise on its name?

      Which Macedonians (other than UMD and our vassal politicians) do you know of that do not claim exlcusive rights to the name Macedonia?

      I think its time you revisit your "facts" and stop confusing "fact" with your opinion.
      Tom,

      Meto isn't interested in the truth.

      Leveraging our identity for club membership is something the Metoists will not give up lightly, because they have too much to gain from it personally, and professionally.

      A civilised, open and honest acknowledgement of the recent history, and recent injustices, was always the best approach with regard to dealing with the Greeks.

      There will never be any kind of political reconciliation between the Macedonians and the invading Greeks until some concensus can be reached about the history of the last century.

      Talking openly and honestly about the past is not about creating territorical pretensions, but about establishing some kind of a concesus about the past. Its also a far more civilised, rationale and sophisticated way of achieving full recognition from the Hellenic Republic, than the current approach which is to 'hack' and 'stumble' our way toward some artificial 'solution' to what is in fact a lie.

      The Metoist position, that Greeks can be Macedonians, too; that we do not have an exclusive 'claim' says nothing about the validity or truth of a claim. As far as they are concerned one claim, is as good as the next, and equal to the next. You have to understand that only a political whore would adopt such a position. You have to consider that the Metoist idea that Greeks can be Macedonians, too (that they have an equally valid claim), only works if one completely disregards the historical injustices of the last century, which brings me to my original point. That is why a civilised, open and honest discussion about the events of the last century, need to be made, by Macedonian politicians so that they can challenge prejudices in Greece, and come to some kind of an understanding.

      Instead, what we are witnesing right now from Meto and the Macedonian government is a SILENCING of THESE HISTORICAL FACTS; its highly irrational behaviour, and taking the historical truth and the past out of the political equation denies us natural justice, and undermines our historical relationship to the land, and our culture. But consider also that while Metoists want to 'by pass' history, Meto is promoting the Greek lie that Greeks can be Macedonians, too. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that Meto has been working for the Greeks and supporting their position fully, within the framework of these negotiations. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was where alot of their money comes from - I mean here we have a diaspora organisation that is actually promoting the Interim Accord (We know whats in it, and so does Meto, but most Macedonians don't). The Interim Accord is forcing us to use our national identity as a bargaining chip. Its also worth nothings that Meto will stay silent on the question of whether Greeks were from a historical point of view, Macedonians, too (clearly they weren't).
      Last edited by Pelister; 11-10-2010, 09:10 PM.

      Comment

      • Vangelovski
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 8531

        Originally posted by Pelister View Post
        Tom,

        Meto isn't interested in the truth.

        Leveraging our identity for club membership is something the Metoists will not give up lightly, because they have too much to gain from it personally, and professionally.

        A civilised, open and honest acknowledgement of the recent history, and recent injustices, was always the best approach with regard to dealing with the Greeks.

        There will never be any kind of political reconciliation between the Macedonians and the invading Greeks until some concensus can be reached about the history of the last century.

        Talking openly and honestly about the past is not about creating territorical pretensions, but about establishing some kind of a concesus about the past. Its also a far more civilised, rationale and sophisticated way of achieving full recognition from the Hellenic Republic, than the current approach which is to 'hack' and 'stumble' our way toward some artificial 'solution' to what is in fact a lie.

        The Metoist position, that Greeks can be Macedonians, too; that we do not have an exclusive 'claim' says nothing about the validity or truth of a claim. As far as they are concerned one claim, is as good as the next, and equal to the next. You have to understand that only a political whore would adopt such a position. You have to consider that the Metoist idea that Greeks can be Macedonians, too (that they have an equally valid claim), only works if one completely disregards the historical injustices of the last century, which brings me to my original point. That is why a civilised, open and honest discussion about the events of the last century, need to be made, by Macedonian politicians so that they can challenge prejudices in Greece, and come to some kind of an understanding.

        Instead, what we are witnesing right now from Meto and the Macedonian government is a SILENCING of THESE HISTORICAL FACTS; its highly irrational behaviour, and taking the historical truth and the past out of the political equation denies us natural justice, and undermines our historical relationship to the land, and our culture. But consider also that while Metoists want to 'by pass' history, Meto is promoting the Greek lie that Greeks can be Macedonians, too. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that Meto has been working for the Greeks and supporting their position fully, within the framework of these negotiations. Its also worth nothings that Meto will stay silent on the question of whether Greeks were from a historical point of view, Macedonians, too (clearly they weren't).
        Pelister,

        You make some legitimate points, particularly in relation to UMD's belief that Greeks and Macedonians have a "shared" history and culture and that Greeks have an equal claim to our identity and all that is associated with it.
        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

        Comment

        • Pelister
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 2742

          Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
          Pelister,

          You make some legitimate points, particularly in relation to UMD's belief that Greeks and Macedonians have a "shared" history and culture and that Greeks have an equal claim to our identity and all that is associated with it.
          The Metoist notion that the Greeks have a legitimate 'claim' is a deeply troubling one for all Macedonians. In a political vacuum, they certainly do have a 'claim' but the question as to whether its valid, was bypassed by Meto and the government, too quickly and easily and this made me very uneasy. Its deeply unsettling stuff. The political whores are not interested in an actual and genuine regard for the historical injustices committed against us. The events of the last century have yet to be accounted for - no explanation, no exposition, no open and honest discussion. How can we reconcile our political differences if we can't come to some agreement or acknowledgement of the past wrongs, and past injustices commited against us? This means talking about the past openly and in a civilised way - not jeopardizing everything by using our identity as a bargaining chip in an irrational political game.

          Comment

          • Vangelovski
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 8531

            Pelister,

            Its not that 'irrational' when you consider that these vassals are hoping to receive some personal reward.
            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

            Comment

            • julie
              Senior Member
              • May 2009
              • 3869

              mak kafana has brought something valid to our attention . Masons . Bitov and co at the umd possibly being masons . Masons detrimental to the macedonian cause . They are first and foremost masons which would explain why they are contra to our existence with their support of the framework agreement and the genocide of our ethnicity . Umd are in name only and the more thought i give to mak kafana suggestion the board members may be masons the more it makes sense . What a wonderful way to play with their paying umd members oblivious to their cover . Wake up nashi tie se protiv makedonskiot pravoslaven narod . Zatoa imaja odnosi i vrski protiv nas so mpo . Ne im na niv gajle ako poveke ne postoje imeto makedonsko lichno isto i oti screwdriver im beshe smeshno imeto na nashi po grchki da prekerstva . Shpioni
              "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev

              Comment

              • Makedonska_Kafana
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2010
                • 2642

                Originally posted by julie View Post

                They are FIRST and foremost masons which would explain why they are contra to our existence with their support of the framework agreement and the genocide of our ethnicity
                new world order - all about power and control, nothing else matters.

                Julie, more the one member is a mason
                Last edited by Makedonska_Kafana; 11-10-2010, 10:57 PM.
                http://www.makedonskakafana.com

                Macedonia for the Macedonians

                Comment

                • UMDiaspora.org
                  Member
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 525

                  UMD Congratulates Macedonia and Turkey on Council of Europe Chairmanship

                  The United Macedonian Diaspora (UMD) congratulated Macedonia today on its successful Chairmanship of the Council of Europe’s (CoE) Committee of Ministers. UMD congratulates Turkey on assuming the new role of Chair. The Foreign Affairs Ministers of Council of Europe member states hold the chairmanship of the Committee of Ministers, the executive body of the organization, on a rotating basis in alphabetical order, for a six-month term, which Macedonian Foreign Minister Antonio Miloshoski completed yesterday.

                  “The leadership displayed by Minister Miloshoski and the Macedonian Government during its Chairmanship is commendable,” stated UMD Chairman of the Board Stojan Nikolov. “Macedonia has paved the way for greater and necessary reforms of the Council of Europe, but most notably, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR), which is Europe’s best mechanism to monitor violations of civil and human rights in its member states.”

                  “The EU’s accession to the Court will only benefit Europe and its’ credibility,” stated UMD President Metodija A. Koloski. “This will hopefully ensure that EU member states like Bulgaria and Greece will fulfill and implement their civil and human rights obligations, including recognizing the existence of a Macedonian minority within their borders.”

                  Read full press release at http://www.umdiaspora.org
                  For comments, questions, concerns, please contact us at:

                  United Macedonian Diaspora
                  http://www.umdiaspora.org

                  1101 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, 6th Floor, Washington, D.C. 20004, United States
                  Phone: (202) 756-2244, Fax: (202) 756-7323, E-mail: [email protected]

                  PO Box 2153, Hawthorn, Vic. 3122, Australia
                  Phone: 0438 385 466, E-mail: [email protected]

                  3555 St. Clair Avenue East, Toronto, ON, M1K 1L6, Canada
                  Phone: 416-209-0448, E-mail: [email protected]

                  Comment

                  • fyrOM
                    Banned
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 2180

                    MakedonskaKafana…Julie, several people in the UMD are Mason's and if the president is he must follow rules that have nothing to do with the Macedonian diaspora and an agenda over and above everything else. If you get very close to some of these people you work for another goal.

                    This is of concern. I don’t know that much about the Masons but in a documentary on them one of their own was trying to make the positive point that they were humanists above nationalities and religions as their list of members would attest but later added members adhere to Mason principles first. This on the surface sounds great as political correct idiots would want us to believe but in my mind the statement raised the question of conflict of interest issues.

                    Pelister…Meto is promoting the Greek lie that Greeks can be Macedonians, too.

                    Ofcourse they can Pelister all they need to do is let Egej rejoin the Republic and any Greeks left over can apple to become Macedonian citizens as an ethnic minority. Anyone claming of mixed Greek and Macedonian blood can choose to call themselves Greek if they want to but the Macedonian in them does in NO way allow them to claim Macedonians are Greek.

                    OziMak…Post045
                    Macedonian Truth Forum > News and Politics
                    President Ivanov: 'Erga Omnes' doesn't work



                    I would very much like clarification from the UMD organisation on the above 3 points
                    ie
                    Masons…are there any Masons n the UMD and their stand on any potential conflict of interests

                    Does the UMD hold the position the Greeks are Macedonians also.

                    Does the UMD agree with Metos statement and if not how do they differ and what action will they take against Meto.

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15658

                      Wasn't Delcev a Mason?
                      I am more concerned with the willingness of these sellouts to play with our identity.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Makedonska_Kafana
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2010
                        • 2642

                        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                        Wasn't Delcev a Mason?
                        I am more concerned with the willingness of these sellouts to play with our identity.
                        http://www.makedonskakafana.com

                        Macedonia for the Macedonians

                        Comment

                        • Vangelovski
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 8531

                          Meto,

                          Just in case you would like to comment on why you think this article is a good one:

                          I.H.T. Op-Ed Contributor

                          The Balkans Can Still Be Lost

                          By SOREN JESSEN-PETERSEN and DANIEL SERWER

                          Published: November 10, 2010

                          As NATO, the United States, the European Union and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe prepare for summit meetings this fall, the Balkans may yet spoil the party.

                          The peace-building process there boasts remarkable successes — the end of the Bosnian war, the fall of Slobodan Milosevic and the rise of democratic Serbia, the independence of Kosovo, impending Croatian membership in the E.U. But failure in the Balkans is still a possibility and would embarrass Europeans and Americans alike.

                          There are three issues that haunt the region: Bosnia and Herzegovina is a country that remains mired in continuing — though currently nonviolent — ethnic tension; relations between Serbia and Kosovo remain unsettled; and Macedonia is unable to join NATO or the European Union until Greece’s objection to its name (which Athens claims for Greece) is resolved.

                          Bosnia’s problems are rooted in the Constitution imposed on the warring factions 15 years ago at the Dayton peace talks. It creates a nonfunctional state unable to meet the many requirements of either NATO or E.U. membership. Constitutional amendments are required to eliminate discrimination on ethnic grounds and provide the Sarajevo government with the authority and responsibility it needs to negotiate for NATO and E.U. membership.

                          Efforts to impose such amendments have failed. What Brussels and Washington need to do now is set out clear criteria that Sarajevo will have to meet before and during the E.U. accession process. Recent elections in Bosnia open up new possibilities for reform, and Serbia’s own progress toward the E.U. should depend on its willingness to insist that the Bosnian Serbs cooperate with the country’s Muslims and Croats to amend the Constitution in ways that will make E.U. membership possible.

                          On Kosovo, the U.N. General Assembly in October recommended that talks begin on practical issues (like trade, energy, environment, health, border facilities, missing persons, return of the displaced) between Belgrade and Pristina, with the E.U. facilitating and the U.S. supporting. This is a good idea whose time has come, but Belgrade will try to use the talks to suggest “corrections” to Kosovo’s borders that would allow Serbia to absorb the Serb communities in northern Kosovo.

                          This movement of a border to accommodate ethnic differences is dangerous and would open up border questions throughout the Balkans: certainly in Macedonia and Bosnia, but likely also in the Albanian-populated areas of southern Serbia and Montenegro as well. Serbia and Kosovo need to stick to the task at hand, establishing good relations on a host of practical issues on the basis of mutual respect, as required for E.U. accession.

                          The government in Skopje faces an uphill battle against Athens, which wants “Macedonia” to be qualified in a way that will distinguish it from what Greeks claim to be exclusively their own domain. Without resolution of this issue, Macedonia faces a long purgatory, without the NATO membership for which it has prepared and without any serious prospect of E.U. membership, a prospect that has kept the country’s ethnic groups from descending into internecine warfare.

                          Brussels and Washington need to untie this knot, which has tightened with every passing year since Macedonia’s independence in 1991. It hardly seems appropriate for Athens to be thumbing its nose at Brussels at a time when it desperately needs E.U. economic backing. For NATO membership, Washington and Brussels should insist that Greece live up to its 1995 agreement to accept Skopje under the euphemistic and anachronistic name “Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (Fyrom).” Provided Skopje is prepared to signal its willingness to add an acceptable geographic qualifier to its name, it is time also for the E.U. to give Macedonia a date for the start of accession talks, a move that would further stabilize the country and also create a strong incentive for Skopje and Athens to come to terms.

                          The peace-building mission in the Balkans is not yet accomplished, even after 15 years of often close U.S./E.U. cooperation. Only when all the region’s countries are irreversibly on a course toward the E.U. will we be able to celebrate. Likely no more than five more years are required. Until then, we need to keep the Balkans on track, ensuring that Bosnia, Kosovo and Macedonia remain on the train.

                          Soren Jessen-Petersen, a Dane and Daniel Serwer, an American, are lecturers at Georgetown University. They have worked on the Balkans for 15 years.

                          http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/11/op...ssen.html?_r=1
                          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                          Comment

                          • UMDiaspora.org
                            Member
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 525

                            Croatian-Americans Support Macedonia's NATO Membership

                            For comments, questions, concerns, please contact us at:

                            United Macedonian Diaspora
                            http://www.umdiaspora.org

                            1101 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, 6th Floor, Washington, D.C. 20004, United States
                            Phone: (202) 756-2244, Fax: (202) 756-7323, E-mail: [email protected]

                            PO Box 2153, Hawthorn, Vic. 3122, Australia
                            Phone: 0438 385 466, E-mail: [email protected]

                            3555 St. Clair Avenue East, Toronto, ON, M1K 1L6, Canada
                            Phone: 416-209-0448, E-mail: [email protected]

                            Comment

                            • Bill77
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2009
                              • 4545

                              Originally posted by UMDiaspora.org View Post
                              Croatian-Americans Support Macedonia's NATO Membership

                              http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/511/1/
                              Don't wary about the Croatian-Americans.

                              Its the individuals in the Macedonian diaspora that support NATO membership under the name of fyrom that we should be concerned about.

                              Do you support NATO Membership?
                              Actually, Are you Macedonian?
                              http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

                              Comment

                              • Makedonska_Kafana
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2010
                                • 2642

                                What if NATO and the EU were removed from the UMD itinerary what would you do to pass your time? Since you are dead set (USA) about joining those two organizations can you give any guarantee that by joing these badly outdated organizations that life will greatly improve for the average citizen in Macdonia?

                                How does American Croation support help the Macedonian Diaspora in Canada, Australia, Germany, England etc.?
                                http://www.makedonskakafana.com

                                Macedonia for the Macedonians

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X