Todor Aleksandrov

[Karposh]

Great discussion. Really good points of view from everyone involved here.

[vicsinad]

Originally Posted by Gocka

Sandanski is a perfect example. Of what I'm talking about.

Goce Delcev is head and shoulders above the rest because I think he was the only one who really understood everything. His quote on the world being a place of cultural competition is what it all amounts to.

To be Macedonian is a choice, to be Bulgarian or Serbian is a choice. Its always silly when different nationalities argue back and forth about who belongs to who. Delcev understood this, that no nationality just exists, its a choice. It was a competition between competing ideologies. Some ideologies won, some lost, some ideologies could coexist, some couldn't.

People get too wrapped up in the black and white of good and evil. Is he a good guy or a bad guy. Aleksandrov was a man who held his own ideology, and that ideology was at odds with what we understand to be Macedonianism. If we accept Aleksandrov as a hero, then we also have to accept his ideology that was in direct contradiction to the idea of a unique and independent Macedonian identity.

He was Macedonian, who committed acts that hurt the Macedonian cause on more than one occasion. Even if at the end of his life he had a change of heart in relation to autonomy from Bulgaria, that doesn't make him a hero. The same could be said for many Macedonians past and present.

Very good points.

[Carlin]

Vicsinad, from one of your earlier posts:

"The MPO further claimed that Pirinsky was not a progressive idealist but a paid communist agent working with left-wing immigrants to confuse the Slavic speaking populations. MPO then revealed Pirinsky’s contacts with Yugoslav, Bulgarian and Soviet communist party members."

MPO revealing Pirinsky's contacts with various communist party members is this legit? What sort of proof did they have?

[vicsinad]

Originally Posted by Carlin15

Vicsinad, from one of your earlier posts:

"The MPO further claimed that Pirinsky was not a progressive idealist but a paid communist agent working with left-wing immigrants to confuse the Slavic speaking populations. MPO then revealed Pirinsky’s contacts with Yugoslav, Bulgarian and Soviet communist party members."

MPO revealing Pirinsky's contacts with various communist party members is this legit? What sort of proof did they have?

Pirinsky was indeed paid from money raised to work as the leader of MPL and American Slav Congress, but there was no evidence (that I've seen) that he was paid by communist officials. Those are just MPO claims (and they can be found in Chris Kostov's "Contested Ethnic Identity" thesis, in which he cites Bulgarian nationalist Konstantin Tzarnushanov). However, the MPO did reveal Pirinsky's contacts by highlighting his relationships with Georgi Dimitrov and Dimitar Vlahov, for example. Being that these men were high ranking communists who were also (at different times) promoting a separate Macedonian identity, it made sense that Pirinsky would be in contact with them.

I did a FOIA request of the FBI for all their files on Pirinsky, and this is where I got much of my information about MPO informants and what they revealed to the FBI. Also, raids on Pirinsky's and MPL's home and place of business revealed many books, documents, letters and correspondences between Pirinsky and communist leaders mentioned above; however, nothing really showed any intent by Pirinsky to bring communism to the US -- it was mostly related to Balkan affairs. The MPO also pointed to MPL newspapers as evidence of Pirinsky's communist ties (the MPL's newspapers would often print messages and articles from Soviet, Bulgarian, Macedonian and Yugoslav communist leaders).

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Poet Hristo Smirnenski saw Aleksandrov, Protogerov and their followers as "fake autonomists" and "quasi-patriots" who behind them stood the lingering shadow of the Bulgarian bourgeoisie.

https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A5...81%D0%BA%D0%B8

[VMRO]

Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija

Poet Hristo Smirnenski saw Aleksandrov, Protogerov and their followers as "fake autonomists" and "quasi-patriots" who behind them stood the lingering shadow of the Bulgarian bourgeoisie.

https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A5...81%D0%BA%D0%B8

It is hard to work out what is true and what is not in that period, basically all the Macedonians who became communist saw Aleksandrov in a negative light and Aleksandrov did the same with respect to communists.

VMRO in that period was anti communist so one way to discredit your opponent is to talk negative.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

VMRO any update on that evidence of the links between MPO and Aleksandrov? Also why do you believe it was the Federalists who screwed up the May Manifesto?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Letter from Aleksandrov to Mihail Čakov speaking of an independent Macedonia

[Liberator of Makedonija]

In their party program, OMO Ilinden - Pirin throw Aleksandrov into the same basket as Mihajlov:

http://omoilindenpirin.org/documents/program_e.php

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Anyone know anything about Aleksandrov's actions during the First World War whilst he was serving in the Bulgarian army?