Tweet
Originally posted by Risto the Great
View Post
-
I would say bipolar out of choice and convenience -
Minister of Education Mila Carovska to remove “History” from School Curriculum
URL:
The announcement that the Education Ministry is preparing to abolish history as a stand-along class that will be taught in elementary school caused outrage in the public. The announcement was wrestled out of Education Minister Mila Carovska today, at a time when Macedonia is strongly pressured to give up most of its history in favor of neighboring countries like Greece and Bulgaria.
After details of the plan were leaked in the public, Carovska, a far left activist who’s been on Soros backed NGO’s payroll for over 15 years and called for Macedonia to renounce much of its history, acknowledged the plan.
Our new concept will mean less individual classes, rolling several classes into one, and more interactive teaching, Carovska said.
Professor Simona Gruevska – Madzoska from the Institute of Macedonian Language revealed the plan to the public. She said that history will be rolled into a broad class called “societal studies”, which will include elements of geography, civics and other classes as well.Comment
-
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH - not "let's just change the history curriculum", no let's just completely abolish history as a subject
And they think what they're doing is going to improve the standard of living in that country? Катастрофа
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.Comment
-
"Membership in any international organization has no value if you are asked to give up your identity,"
North Macedonian President Stevo Pendarovski told parliament in an annual address.
In other words, when Greece told them to give up their name and ancient history, it was fine.
When Bulgaria told them to give up their medieval and revolutionary history, Gotse Delchev, and language, it was fine.
But when Bulgaria said "You cannot be an EU member and celebrate Tito", that was the last straw!
Comment
-
In an unexpected turn of events Czechia and Slovakia have blocked EU Council conclusions on enlargement.
(STS. CYRIL AND METHODIUS ARE IN THE PREAMBLE OF THE SLOVAK CONSTITUTION, AND THE BULGARIAN PARLIAMENT APPROPRIATED THEM ON DECEMBER 9.)
URL:
Czecks, Slovaks Reject Bulgaria’s ‘Historical’ Twist to Enlargement Criteria
In a swipe at Bulgaria and its feud with North Macedonia, two Central European countries have said they will not allow disputes over history and language to become criteria for the start of EU membership talks.
Bulgaria on Friday reacted with annoyance after Czechia and Slovakia on Thursday blocked EU moves to meet its demands concerning North Macedonia’s start of EU accesion talks.
In a joint statement, the two states on Thursday said they would not endorse the recently amended draft on EU Enlargement Conclusions, intended to appease Bulgarian demands toward EU hopeful North Macedonia, as it contained elements that further complicated the enlargement process.,
The draft was supposed to be adopted at the Council of EU Ministers on Thursday.
“We were unable to give our consent to the draft presented for approval,” the joint statement read. “The text … contained elements, including the notion of falsifying history, that in our view would be hugely detrimental to the enlargement process and could potentially bring about further complications,” they said.
“We will not allow the [European] Union to be the judge of our shared history, how we identify ourselves, or the language we use. These issues belong to the parties concerned and we are here to support them,” they concluded.
The disputed sentence that has alarmed Prague and Bratislava suggests EU candidate members could in future be judged also on whether they had falsified or wrongly interpreted their history.
The sentence was inserted on the insistence of Bulgaria, which last month blocked the start of North Macedonia’s EU accession talks, accusing its neighbour of falsifying its own and Bulgarian history. Bulgaria, which long laid claim to Macedonia, also disputes the existence of a Macedonian language, separate from Bulgarian.
The sentence was inserted as a last-ditch effort by the outgoing German EU presidency to find a compromise that would nudge Sofia into unblocking the start of EU accession talks for North Macedonia.
Both Czechia and Slovakia underlined that they appreciated German EU presidency efforts to resolve the problem but added that they hoped a better solution would be found.
Bulgaria originally insisted that this historical criterion would refer only to North Macedonia, and would not be a general provision affecting all EU hopefuls.
But the grudge has also seemingly affected Albania, which was also hoping to start EU membership talks by the end of this year.
Bulgaria on Friday complained that the move from Czechia and Slovakia had come “without an explanation”, and added that it had nothing against the start of accession talks with Albania.
“Bulgaria welcomes the negotiation framework for Albania, and welcomes the additional time provided to improve the framework for the Republic of North Macedonia,” Foreign Minister Ekaterina Zaharieva said in a press statement.
Additional links:
Comment
-
Here's a passage from a Turkish article by Idlir Lika
It is not my aim here to investigate the historical bases of the competing Bulgarian and Macedonian identity claims. However, claiming that Macedonia cannot use the name of its official language because Bulgaria considers it to be a mere dialect of its own defies scientific logic. Languages are not the fixed, unchanging, given elements of social existence that nationalist historiographies of all countries claim them to be. Languages are assembled and standardized at the end of various political and socio-economic processes, and henceforth they simply become the medium through which nations as political communities can be “imagined”, as the leading voice in the nationalism scholarship puts it. Historical evidence proves beyond any doubt that different nations can even be imagined through the exact same language. For instance, South American states all share the same language (Spanish), but each of them is imagined as a distinct nation. The same dynamic is at play with the former British and French colonies in Africa and Asia, which still have the colonial language as an official language of the state, but each constitutes a different nation. Applying the same logic to the Balkans, while it is true that the Bulgarian and Macedonian languages are quite similar to each other (probably the most similar pair among the different Slavic languages), nothing prevents Macedonian from being the medium through which a distinct nation can be and is in fact imagined.
The second Bulgarian objection concerning the “artificial” nature of the Macedonian nation likewise defies historical evidence. Given that languages generally form the basis of national consciousness and having already said that standard languages are largely “created”, it follows that nations are also “constructed” communities, constructed by elites at the end of various political and socio-economic processes. Turning to the never-boring Balkans, yes, it is true that the Yugoslav communists, out of their enmity/rivalry with the Bulgarian communists, have done much to establish a distinct Macedonian nation by being the first to standardize a Macedonian language and by establishing an autocephalous Macedonian Orthodox Church in 1967 (and the currently ruling Social Democratic party fully subscribes to this view), but is the formation of the Bulgarian nation also not tied to specific geopolitical developments? Was the formation of an independent Bulgarian nation in 1878 very clearly not an outcome of Russian geopolitical designs in the Balkans and of Russian desire to dismember the Ottoman Empire? Bulgarians themselves do not have any qualms about this historical fact. They proudly acknowledge it. However, before advancing such double-standard demands toward their weaker western neighbor, the Sofia administration should be reminded that the statue of the Russian Tsar Alexander II (“Tsar the Liberator”) still stands in front of the Bulgarian parliament building, the legislative body that theoretically represents the “will” of the Bulgarian nation. In brief, the Bulgarian nation is definitely older but no less artificial than the Macedonian one. Both were born out of geopolitical contingencies.
The last demand, unfortunately, reveals, more than anything else, the double standard applied by Bulgaria. Sofia is asking from Skopje (and also from other Balkan countries where a tiny Bulgarian minority resides) to respect minority rights, while at the same time for three decades by now it has resolutely opposed all demands from its large 10% Turkish minority to officially recognize their ethnic identity, grant them minority status, and open minority-language schools. Respect for ethnoreligious diversity and minority rights is one of the building blocks and most cherished values of the EU. As such, it makes completely no sense to block the opening of accession talks with a country whose minority rights record is definitely better than many of the member states themselves. To take only a recent example, last year North Macedonia became a constitutionally bi-lingual state (like Belgium and Canada) after the elevation of Albanian to the status of official language at the national levelComment
-
We don't know what this annex agreement contains in terms of actual details yet.
Karakachanov: We submitted an annex with 12 points, N. Macedonia needs to sign it to get a date.
URL:
Last edited by Carlin; 01-09-2021, 03:30 PM.Comment
-
Софија со остар демарш до македонското МНР поради запалено бугарско знаме во Вевчани
URL:
Захариева објави дека бугарскиот амбасадор во Скопје упатил остар вербален протест поради инцидентот
Амбасадорот на Бугарија во Скопје Ангел Ангелов упатил вербален демарш до македонското МНР поради информации дека е запалено бугарско знаме во Вевчани, каде што вчера полицијата го растури карневалот, одија организација се откажа општината поради ситуацијата со ковид – 19.
За демаршот, на Фејсбук, информира шефицата на бугарската дипломатија Екатерина Захариева.
„По повод медиумските објави за изгорено бугарско знаме во село Вевчани во Република Северна Македонија му порачав на бугарскиот амбасадор во Скопје Ангелов да го се изрази пред владата на РСМ нашето силно негодување за овој вандалски чин. Амбасадорот Ангелов веќе упати остар вербален демарш во Министерството за надворешни работи на РСМ“,
напиша Захариева.
Бугарските медиуми не пренесуваат повеќе детали за случајот кој предизвика вербален демарш од Софија до Скопје, освен дека за време на годинешниов карневал во Вевчани, кој немаше официјална организација, е запалено бугарско знаме.Comment
-
To summarise, in 2014, a law was introduced where the burning of flags (irrespective of the country) would warrant a punishment of 1 to 5 years. That law came about during the Gruevski regime. And now the Zaev regime is busy pursuing the individuals responsible for burning the flag of Macedonia's steppe-nostalgic neighbours to the east so they can be throw in prison. Meanwhile, Macedonia is routinely insulted by its neighbours. Think about how utterly stupid that is - you can go to prison for 5 years for burning the flag of another country (whilst in your own country) that despises your very existence.Originally posted by Carlin15 View PostIn the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.Comment
-
I think I saw on social media members of the Bulgarian National Movement burning a ventilator and Serb flag in retaliation - not a word from Skopje or SofiaI know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.Comment
-
It can be found hereOriginally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
You have to question Macedonia's media, they report when something is directed at Macedonia's neighbors but when it's an attack on their own country they turn a blind eye.Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.
Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.Comment
-
Adjective “Macedonian” to be erased from the official minutes of the joint commission with Bulgaria, “of the Republic of North Macedonia” to be used instead
URL:
Instead of the adjective “Macedonian”, the constitutional name “Republic of North Macedonia”, will be used in the minutes of the Joint Macedonian-Bulgarian Commission.
This is the compromise that, according to Sitel TV, was reached regarding the use of the adjective “Macedonian” in the minutes of the Joint Commission.
Sources from the Macedonian team of the commission told Sitel that the agreement is that the adjective Macedonian will be used only in the quotations from the minutes, while in the official conclusions of the meetings the constitutional name of the country will be used, ie the names deriving from it.
Thus, instead Macedonian, “of the Republic of North Macedonia” will be used.
There was allegedly an agreement on the name of the commission itself, ie the minutes will no longer have a Macedonian side and a Bulgarian side, but the minutes will state the Commission of the Republic of North Macedonia or the Commission of the Republic of Bulgaria, depending on what it refers to.
The Macedonian side was satisfied that the adjective Macedonian still remains in use.
Македонската комисија демантира дека од записниците е избришано „македонски“
URL:
Категорично ги отфрламе невистините дека придавката „македонски“ се заменува со уставното име Република Македонија и дека придавката „македонски“ ќе се користи само во цитатите на членовите на Комисијата, нагласуваат за МИА од македонскиот тим на Заедничката мултидисциплинарна експертска комисија за историски и образовни прашања.
-Членовите на македонскиот тим во Комисијата би сакале да ја информираат јавноста во однос на неточните и нецелосни информации кои се појавија во јавноста во врска со вчерашната виртуелна средба на која беше усогласен записникот од деветтата средба. Имено, категорично ги отфрламе невистините дека придавката македонски се заменува со уставното име Република Македонија и дека придавката македонски ќе се користи само во цитатите на членовите на Комисијата, наведуваат од македонскиот тим на Комисијата.
Потенцираат дека на вчерашната средба беше постигнато техничко решение со кое одредени проблеми биле надминати, при што секоја страна останала на своите ставови и позиции во контекст на проблематичните прашања во содржината на записниците.
-Би сакале да испратиме повик до новинар(к)ите да известуваат одговорно и професионално за теми кои се важни за интересите на македонската држава, апелираат од Комисијата.
Дел од медиумите денеска објавија дека придавката “македонски” ќе се користи само во цитатите од записниците, а во официјалните заклучоци од средбите ќе се употребува уставното име на земјава.
Македонскиот тим од Комисијата вчера за МИА нагласи дека на вчерашната средба, на која се дискутираше за усогласување на содржината во записниците од деветтата и десеттата средба бил постигнат напредок.
– Двете страни ја усогласија содржината на Записникот од деветтата средба, а во однос на десеттата средба беа надминати неколку прашања поврзани со содржината на записникот, посочија од Комисијата.
Во периодот до наредната редовна средба, која начелно е договорена да се одржи на 25 и 26 февруари, ќе се продолжи со работа во однос на останатите прашања од записникот од десеттата и за записникот од последната, единаесеттата средба на Комисијата.
На вчерашниот онлајн состанок, на кој учествуваа по тројца претставници од двете страни, беше предвидено да се разговара само за текстовите на записниците што сè уште не се потпишани, но не и за какви било историски прашања.
Во 2021 година се очекува Комисијата да има пет состаноци. Претходниот, 11-ти состанок на Заедничката комисија се одржа на 4 декември минатата годинаComment
-
The Macedonian side is the peasant with the ill fitting suit just happy to be in the group photo. Such an agreeable collection of village idiots. It's embarrassing to be Macedonian ... or whatever they call themselves now.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.comComment
-
From the first link.
From the second link (translated).Sources from the Macedonian team of the commission told Sitel that the agreement is that the adjective Macedonian will be used only in the quotations from the minutes, while in the official conclusions of the meetings the constitutional name of the country will be used, ie the names deriving from it.
Games.We categorically reject the untruths that the adjective "Macedonian" is replaced by the constitutional name Republic of Macedonia and that the adjective "Macedonian" will be used only in the quotations of the members of the Commission, emphasize for MIA the Macedonian team of the Joint Multidisciplinary Expert Commission on Historical and Educational Issues......We would like to send a call to the journalists to report responsibly and professionally on topics that are important for the interests of the Macedonian state, the Commission appeals.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.Comment
-
Pendarovski promises Bulgaria that Macedonia will not try to install “some kind of a Macedonian minority”
URL:
President Stevo Pendarovski vowed not to interfere in Bulgarian internal affairs over the issue of minority rights, referring to Macedonians in Bulgaria as “some kind of minority”. In an interview, he did insist that there are Macedonians living in Greece, though.
Bulgaria is adamant that Macedonia is not allowed to raise the minority issue in the region of Pirin Macedonia, which Bulgaria conquered in the Balkan wars a little over 100 years ago. According to the 2017 Zaev – Borisov treaty, both countries pledged not to raise minority issues, but they reserve the right to protect their citizens living in the other country – a recipe that favors Bulgaria which was systematically issuing passports to Macedonian citizens. Pendarovski promised that Macedonia is not officially helping minority organizations in Pirin Macedonia.
Their point is that we must give up on attempts to install some kind of a Macedonian minority in Bulgaria. Principle number 1 in international relations, especially since 1945, is non-interference in internal affairs of other countries. With that, we can’t and don’t want to interfere in the internal order of Bulgaria. But if somebody individually declares to be a Macedonian, and turns to the Council of Europe or other organizations to seek his rights, that doesn’t automatically mean that someone in Skopje instructed and paid for it. There are people who declare to be Macedonians in Greece too. With the Prespa treaty we did not renounce them, Pendarovski said.
Under the Prepsa treaty, Macedonia is obliged not to press for the protection of the rights of any persons that are not its citizens”. The Zaev – Borisov treaty has a specific article obligating only Macedonia to declare that its Constitution does not “constitute the basis for interference in the internal affairs of the Republic of Bulgaria, with the purpose of protecting the status and rights of persons, who are not nationals of the Republic of Macedonia”. Meanwhile, both countries “have the right to protect the rights and interests of its respective nationals, on the territory of the other Contracting Party in accordance with international law” – a clause that in reality only favors Bulgaria, which has issued over 100,000 citizenships to Macedonian citizens, eager to travel and work more freely in Western Europe using the Bulgarian EU passport.
Organizations of Macedonians in Bulgaria have turned to the European Court of Human Rights after Bulgaria refused to register them, and recently, left leaning members of the European Parliament have raised this issue against the Borisov Government. Bulgaria considers these suits and the actions of the European Parliament as inspired by the Zaev Government.Comment
Comment