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Old 04-24-2012, 11:53 PM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProMKD View Post
The reason why this news (if true - hopefully it is) is so important and big to me, is because it is showing that the state has SOME shred of respect for the Macedonians in the region and wants to welcome them and give them some rights under the Macedonian constitution.

These people, along with our brothers all over the balkans, have been insulted, neglected, and deported for decades, and it`s about time some Macedonian government even pretended like they gave a crap about it.

We have a LONG way to go - but hopefully this is a beginning. It`s always better to start late than to never start.

I would like to see mobile health units, free exams, free schoolbooks and lessons in Macedonian, etc. There used to be a `mobile hospital`, which was a converted bus that travelled from Skopje to all the villages and provided medical services to the people. I don`t think they have this anymore, but it`s something that is needed, both in Macedonia, and to our people in the neighbouring countries.
Well said. We have people, history and land in kosovo (even though its a small aread) and it would be a shame if this part of macedonian culture/history/people is erased like what is almost happened to the macedonians in Greece and Bulgaria.

Hopefully this is more of a incentive for other gorani to jump aboard and accept their macedonian ancestry. And it will be a good counter against the greedy and opportunistic tactic employed by the bulgarians and shiptars in trying to "change" these people into bulgarians and shiptars.
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Old 07-26-2012, 06:38 PM   #302
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Kосово молчи за Горанците, а Хрватите ги става во Уставот



Претседателката на Kосово, Атифете Јахјага, цели два месеца не одговорила на писмото на нејзиниот македонски колега Ѓорге Иванов, во кое тој побарал решавање на статусот на Горанците. Во писмото, кое шефот на македонската држава го испратил во мај годинава, бара Горанците - Македонци со муслиманска вероисповед - да бидат наведени во Уставот на Kосово согласно Kонвенцијата за националните малцинства.

Претходно, писмо со слична содржина во ноември лани до Јахјага испратиле и претставниците на македонската заедница, но и тие биле игнорирани.

Според сознанија на „Дневник“, по испраќањето на писмото имало дипломатски контакти со кабинетот на косовската претседателка, но и со пописната канцеларија за да се расчистат некои прашања. Едно од нив било и резултатот на пописот, при што, како што рекле претставниците на косовските институции, било констатирано дека многу мал број жители се попишале како Горанци, односно Македонци. Нашиот извор истакнува дека резултатите од ланскиот попис на Kосово се многу дискутабилни, па дури и неточни и оти тоа го констатирале и претставници на меѓународни организации и институции, меѓу кои и Советот на Европа.

- Уште подрастичен е проблемот со Горанците, кои живеат под секојдневни притисоци и уцени. Од друга страна, дали тие имаа можност да се попишат во отворена графа „Македонци“? Не. За нив како можност беше оставена графата „други“.Ова треба да го земат предвид косовските институции - вели нашиот извор, кој работел на досието со Горанците.

Од кабинетот на Иванов потврдија дека било испратено писмо до косовската претседателка, но демантираа дека во писмото било наведено дека на Kосово живеат 30.000 Горанци, како што објави „Kоха“.

- Тоа не е точно, во писмото се бара решавање на статусот на Горанците -Македонци со муслиманска вероисповед. Официјален одговор на писмото нема, а се надеваме на позитивен одговор - ни изјавија вчера од кабинетот на Иванов.

„Дневник“ неколкупати ја посетил областа Гора и се уверил дека на теренот дејствуваат силни пропаганди кои го делат месното население. Меѓу играта на Србија и Босна се вмеша и Бугарија, па така Горанците, кои зборуваат почист македонски јазик и од Македонците во матичната држава, се ставени на кантарот „кој ќе даде повеќе“.

„Kоха“ вчера пишувајќи за писмото на Иванов до Јахјага константира: „Македонските државници продолжуваат со тврдоглавоста околу постоењето на македонска заедница во Kосово, дури и со барање да влезат како уставна категорија“.



Само македонската заедница е невидлива



Во Уставот на Kосово се наведени сите малцинства, но не и Горанците-Македонци. Така, на пример, во Уставот ќе се најде место и за малобројната хрватска заедница, која брои 400 и за Црногорците, а во моментов се многу мали шансите конечно и Горанците да си го добијат заслуженото место во највисокиот државен акт. Тие иако се околу десетина илјади на компактна територија, при што околу 3.000 се со македонски пасоши, за властите не биле „видливи“ за да им отстапат место во Уставот.
http://www.dnevnik.com.mk/?ItemID=E6...58682461C514D2
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:23 PM   #303
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This is a fascinating topic which I dont know much about unfortunately. Great read.
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Old 10-08-2014, 01:48 PM   #304
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its been predertmined for what the destiny of macedonia ought to be a multiethnic state.No one wants to beleive in the fatherland of the macedonians.What we need is the awakening and the empowerement of the people to stop the madness of a name change.There are alternative solutions.Macedonia doesn't need the eu.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:57 AM   #305
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The people of Gora appear to have a strong Macedonian identity, are living in the region of Macedonian and speak Macedonian. Seems pretty clear to me
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Old 02-19-2017, 06:19 AM   #306
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Default Albania to hold a census

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/18561/2/

Quote:
Albania passes census law

Friday, 08 July 2011

Albanian MPs passed late Thursday the Law on Census of population and households, due to be implemented in October, media reports from Tirana. The law was adopted in the absence of the opposition socialists, who boycott the Parliament due to events over the elections of Tirana mayor. Minister for Innovation and ICT Genc Pollo, who is also president of the State Census Commission, said the law met all European standards.

"Albanian citizens will be able to freely express their ethnic and religious affiliation and mother tongue. However, they are not forced to answer these sensitive questions", added Polo.

Representatives of Macedonians in Albania say the law's adoption is good from a political standpoint, but they do not believe in its realistic implementation, as do other minorities, taking into consideration the intimidation and pressure by state institutions, political parties and several NGOs.

"We will do everything to convince Macedonians they should not be afraid to declare what they are, since this is the only way to prove our number. Thus, we would require fulfillment of our legitimate rights as loyal citizens of Albania", said Vasil Sterjovski of the Macedonian Party.

According to him, efforts will focus on meeting the joint request with other minorities over the engagement of census takers from the minorities, as well as members of minorities in municipal census commissions. In the Balkans, although members of the EU, both Bulgaria and Greece are the remaining nations that do not allow its citizens to express their nationality/ethnicity, rather only their religion.
We will see if they're capable of being honest. Here are some excerpts from the wiki page on Macedonians in Albania:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_in_Albania
Quote:
The Macedonians in Albania (Macedonian: Македонци во Албанија, Makedonci vo Albanija; Albanian: Maqedonasit n Shqipri) are an officially recognized ethnic minority.[3][4] According to the 2011 census, 5,870 ethnic Macedonians live in Albania. However, before the census, Macedonian organizations from Albania asked Macedonians to boycott the census because only in Pustec Municipality were individuals were allowed to declare themselves as ethnic Macedonians.[5] In the 1989 census, 4,697 people had declared themselves Macedonian.[6]

The condition of the Macedonian population living in the Prespa area is described in positive terms and particular praise is given since all the villages of the area are allowed schooling in their mother tongue.[7] Macedonian organizations allege that the government undercounts their number and that they are politically under-represented, arguing there are no Macedonians in the Albanian parliament.[8] Past Helsinki reports stated, "Albania recognizes [...] a Macedonian minority, but only in the Southern regions. Those who identify as Macedonians [...] outside these minority regions are denied the minority rights granted in the south, including minority classes at state schools."[9]

In March 2009, the Commission for Minority Issues of the Foreign Ministry of Albania announced the results of its study about the national minorities in the country. According to the study, there are 4,148 Macedonians (0.14% of the total population) living in the country. The mayor of Pustec Edmond Temelko criticised the report and said that "this number once again proves that the Albanian Government denies the existence of the Macedonian minority". He stated that the population of Pustec, which is mainly populated by ethnic Macedonians, is even 5,300 and that the Macedonian minority in Albania makes up 150,000. The ethnic Macedonian organisations of Albania announced they will complain at Albanian institutions and international organisations.[13][14] The 2011 census was controversial for the nation's ethnic minorities. Macedonian and Greek groups sharply criticized Article 20 of the Census law, according to which a $1,000 fine will be imposed on anyone who will declare an ethnicity other than what is stated on his or her birth certificate. This is seen an attempt to intimidate minorities into declaring Albanian ethnicity. In addition, some believed the Albanian government had stated that it would jail anyone who did not participate in the census or refused to declare his or her ethnicity.[15]
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Old 02-01-2021, 01:55 AM   #307
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What do we know of this "Unique Gorani Party" and its leader Adem Hodža?

https://vesnik-ilinden.com/smk-izraz...anska-partija/
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Old 02-01-2021, 06:48 PM   #308
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I wonder to what extent they actually self-identify as Macedonians these days. The extent of assimilation is rather advanced. You have Macedonian Muslims in Macedonia itself that actually identify as Turks, Albanians or Bosniaks.

In the Republic of Macedonia, there are two Gorani inhabited villages within Bogovinje Municipality: Jelovjane and Urvich located in the Polog region that neighbours the Gora region. During the Macedonian census of 2001, the population of Jelovjane self declared as Turks (90%) while Urvich self declared as Turks (85%) and Albanians (15%)! (.. And this is within the present borders of Macedonia)

Vidoeski, Božidar (1998). Dijalektite na makedonskiot jazik. Vol. 1. Makedonska akademija na naukite i umetnostite. ISBN 9789989649509.

- p. 309: "Во западна Македонија исламизирано македонско население живее во неколку географски региони на македонско-албанската пограничје:... во Полог (Јеловјане, Урвич)."

- p. 315. "Автентичниот горански говор добро го чуваат и жителите во муслиманските оази Урвич и Јеловјане во Тетовско иако тие подолго време живеат во друго дијалектно окружување."

URL:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gora_(region)

Last edited by Carlin; 02-01-2021 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 02-02-2021, 12:03 AM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlin15 View Post
I wonder to what extent they actually self-identify as Macedonians these days. The extent of assimilation is rather advanced. You have Macedonian Muslims in Macedonia itself that actually identify as Turks, Albanians or Bosniaks.

In the Republic of Macedonia, there are two Gorani inhabited villages within Bogovinje Municipality: Jelovjane and Urvich located in the Polog region that neighbours the Gora region. During the Macedonian census of 2001, the population of Jelovjane self declared as Turks (90%) while Urvich self declared as Turks (85%) and Albanians (15%)! (.. And this is within the present borders of Macedonia)

Vidoeski, Boidar (1998). Dijalektite na makedonskiot jazik. Vol. 1. Makedonska akademija na naukite i umetnostite. ISBN 9789989649509.

- p. 309: "Во западна Македонија исламизирано македонско население живее во неколку географски региони на македонско-албанската пограничје:... во Полог (Јеловјане, Урвич)."

- p. 315. "Автентичниот горански говор добро го чуваат и жителите во муслиманските оази Урвич и Јеловјане во Тетовско иако тие подолго време живеат во друго дијалектно окружување."

URL:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gora_(region)
2001 census not exactly reliable. A lot of people in Gora (under Kosovo) identify with Macedonia, this is evidenced from the existence of the "Macedonian-Gorani Community of Kosovo" organisation and anthropological work conducted in the region by Nick Anastasovski; as well as just documentaries and other forms of media showing people in villages there declaring themselves as Macedonians. Assimilation or threat of it is a massive issue for Macedonians of the Islamic faith: the complete lack of support from Skopje for Macedonians of non-Orthodox backgrounds has allowed for their assimilation into other ethnic groups. Macedonians in Kosovska Gora are berated by all sides to declare themselves as Albanians, Serbs or even Bosnians. Macedonian Muslims in the Republic have historically identified as Turks and are under threat of complete Albanianisation these days
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Old 02-06-2021, 01:08 PM   #310
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The Torbeshes of Macedonia: Religious and National Identity Questions of Macedonian-Speaking Muslims

Ali Dikici
Published online: 13 May 2008

URL:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...02000802011044

- "Although religion and religion-based tradition appeared to be decisive ethnicity components for many other Muslim minorities in the Balkans, the Torbeshes of Macedonia have not developed their collective identity solely on religious grounds. The ethnic identity question of the Torbesh community is still under dispute although a majority declare themselves as Turks. A minor Torbesh group, for whom language is a much more important identity criterion, feels much closer to the orthodox Macedonians. Some of the Torbeshes declare themselves as Muslim Albanians for pragmatic or ideological reasons."

- "Current mayors of two Torbesh towns Dzupa and Plasnitsa, Dr. Nuzi Şahin and Dr. Fidail Salifoski respectively, are members of TDP (Turkish Democratic Party = Демократска партија на Турците). Before parliamentary elections of July 2006 a new party was formed by a Torbesh businessman, Fiat Canovski, and he was elected as a parliamentarian."


PS:

https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E...B8%D1%86%D0%B0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasnica_Municipality

Plasnica Municipality

- "Според пописот од 2002 година во општина Пласница живеат 4.545 жители во 1.125 домаќинства и 1.225 станови. Густината на населеност во оваа општина е 84,2 жит./км2. Според националната припадност во општината живеат 4.446 Турци, 34 Македонци, 20 Албанци и 45 жители кои се изјасниле како припадници на други заедници."

- "Месното население тврди дека се етнички Турци кои зборуваат на македонски јазик."

Last edited by Carlin; 02-06-2021 at 01:16 PM.
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