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Old 07-26-2009, 09:20 PM   #21
osiris
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its all greek tm whichever way you look at it,

to preserve is greek
to ignore is greek again,
to destroy is still greek
to be greek is beyong logic
to be greek is a dream
beyond understanding
to be greek is fully sick
it is re malaka
what we define it to be
when we decide to define,
what we want it to be.
i hope now its easy to see
being greek is like a cup
of turkish greek bitter coffee

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Old 07-26-2009, 09:56 PM   #22
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Nice list Osiris Unfortunately this is all too true in that terrorist state known as "hellass". Here's a new gem from a recent NY times article about the Elgin Marbles.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/ar...=2&sq=Albanian Marbles&st=cse&scp=1

Its the fault of a German, Mr. Dimou said about Greek pride in this cause. He was referring to Johann Winckelmann, the 18th-century German art historian whose vision of an ancient Greece populated by beautiful, tall, blond, wise people, representing perfection, as Mr. Dimou put it,was in a sense imposed on the country to shape modern Greek identity.

We used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans, but then Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us, No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants of Plato and Socrates, and that did it. If a small, poor nation has such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never recover.

This myth required excavators on the Acropolis during the 19th century to erase Ottoman traces and purify the site as the crucible of classicism. The Erechtheion had been a harem, the Parthenon a mosque. But Greek archaeology has always been a kind of fantasy, Antonis Liakos, a leading Greek historian, noted the other day. The repatriation argument, relying on claims of historical integrity, itself distorts history.

For their part, the British also point out that the marbles presence in London across two centuries now has its own perch on history, having influenced neo-Classicism and Philhellenism around the globe. Thats true, and its not incidental that the best editions of ancient Greek texts are published by British, French, Americans and Germans, not Greeks. But imperialism isnt an endearing argument.




This is a Gem of an article.
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Old 07-26-2009, 10:06 PM   #23
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For their part, the British also point out that the marbles’ presence in London across two centuries now has its own perch on history, having influenced neo-Classicism and Philhellenism around the globe. That’s true, and it’s not incidental that the best editions of ancient Greek texts are published by British, French, Americans and Germans, not Greeks. But imperialism isn’t an endearing argument.
An interesting point indeed.
Those that planted the seed for this modern Greek identity deserve to share in the spoils of these myths.
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:29 AM   #24
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modern greece owes more than the idea of hellenism to the west, risto if we calculated all the money spend on military and econmic aid they have received, they could have probably owned greece by now.
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Old 07-28-2009, 01:47 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
An interesting point indeed.
Those that planted the seed for this modern Greek identity deserve to share in the spoils of these myths.
Of course they do, they are the Pericles' and Socrates' who 'Hellenized' the Albanians of Morea, they are more akin to the ancient Greeks than the modern Greeks are, much more. I find it laughable that the inhabitants of the area from where the marbles were taken were not bothered by the action, yet after 150 years in the state created by England, France and Russia, they now see it fit to ask for them 'back', its pathetic. Much of Greece's modern history is a sham, initiated by foreigners to the Balkans and built upon by theives and liars.
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Old 07-31-2009, 11:55 AM   #26
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http://thefastertimes.com/southerneu...opolis-museum/

Rewriting History at the Acropolis Museum
Nicole Itano
July 31, 2009

ATHENS, Greece The none-too-subtle subtext behind the recent opening of Greeces new Acropolis Museum was that the time had come for Britain to return the famous Parthenon, or Elgin, Marbles, which are still in display at the British Museum nearly 200 years after they were hacked from the famous building and hauled off to London by a British aristocrat.

But although the museum was designed to boost national pride, it recently found itself under attack from the countrys most powerful nationalist institution, the Greek Orthodox Church.

Earlier this week, the museum announced that it was removing a scene from an animated film censoring it, according to its Greek-French creator depicting Christian priests destroying part of the Parthenon, after complaints from the Church.

The offending scene, which was excerpted from a short made in 2004 by Academy Award-winning director Constantin Costa-Gavras, can be seen here in the directors original film beginning at about 1:30:

YouTube - To λογοκριμ*νο βίντεο του Κώστα Γαβρά για τον *αρθενώνα

So why all the fuss?

The Greek Orthodox Church and Athenian democracy represented most fully in popular imagination by the Parthenon are the two most powerful symbols of Greek nationhood. So the idea that Christians might once have been less than respectful to Greeces ancient past strikes at the heart of the Greek national identity, and the Churchs role in it.

Of course, it is widely documented that early Christians tore down ancient monuments and that the Parthenon was once used as a church (and later, as a mosque). But, for many Greeks, those are inconvenient facts, best left unexplored. According to the Associated Press, Greek officials contended the film misrepresented the attitude of the Greek Orthodox Church toward Greeces ancient heritage.

History in this part of the world is often as much a nation-building project as it is a process aimed at trying to understand, and learn from, the past. In Greece, nationalists, as well as the Greek Church, have often resisted versions of history that veer from the mainstream good vs. evil, vs. them narrative taught in schools.

In 2007, for example, the Church led a campaign against a new history textbook for 11 year-olds that it said minimized Greek suffering under the Ottomans. Greeces center-right government eventually withdrew the books.


Other countries in the region have faced similar battles over history and how it should be interpreted. Last year, the Greek Cypriot government came under fire after it tried to revise the countrys elementary school history curriculum in a way that showed Turkish Cypriots in less negative light. Serbian and Albanian children in Kosovo still learn very different versions of the past and, of course, in Turkey, talking about whether there was a genocide against Armenians in the early years of the 20th century remains taboo.

Some historians in the region, like those involved in the Joint History Project, are trying to encourage a less one-sided approach to history.

But, as the recent decision by the Acropolis Museum illustrates, they are still in the minority.



Wow these people are so fake it's not even funny.
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Old 07-31-2009, 04:55 PM   #27
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Seriously, this mockery of Balkan history needs to be compared with the last 500 years of Anglo history. I defy them to even compare the sufferings and absolute torture endured in all of these regions. They mock our collective suffering and yet have some insipid listing of historical events that helped create their emerging nations.

If the entire Balkans woke up, it would humble these idiots.

Oh ... and the Greek church needs many bitch slaps.
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Old 08-03-2009, 04:55 AM   #28
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An interesting article, a little apologetic, but interesting nonetheless.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/200852

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Is there a glimmer of hope that all the remaining marbles from the Parthenon might eventually be reunited, at least temporarily? The trustees of the British Museum have stated they would consider lending the marbles to Athensthough some are too fragile to travel in either direction, notes the director, Neil MacGregorprovided the Greek government acknowledge Britain's ownership of the artworks. For many Greeks, that's a sore point. "How can anyone dare say they belong to the British?" asks Samaras. "These are treasures taken out of the Acropolis when Greece was under enemy occupation." Pandermalis takes a gentler, less political approach: he suggests that Greece could lend other classical pieces to London in exchange for a long-term loan of the marbles. "It's not easy," he says, "but let's find a solution for both sides."
There was no 'Greece' and certainly no 'Hellas' under occupation, no such entity existed during the Ottoman period in that region. There was the Morea (Slavic word meaning 'Seas', coming from More 'Sea'), alot of Albanian fighters, and Christian rebellion against Muslim rule. As a rule, the people that came to be known as 'Greeks' did not care (or even know) about the marbles, there were few exceptions, who were most probably informed by westerners themselves.

Interesting game that the British are playing, acknowledge British ownership and we will lend them to you.
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Old 08-04-2009, 01:05 PM   #29
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Arvanites of Greece still refer to themselves as Arberore in their native Arvanitika dialect similar to the Albanians in Italy the Arbereshe.

The term Shqiptar was not coined yet, all Albanians in the Middle Ages called themselves Arberore, the name Arvanites still use to this day.

They share the root Arber not to mention the Arvanitika dialect is undoubtedly Albanian. As a Gheg Albanian speaker I can still fully comprehend the Arvanitika dialect.

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Old 08-04-2009, 05:49 PM   #30
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Astrit, if the Arvanites can be Greek .... anyone can.
Tell me, has the Tosk dialect changed over the last 100 years?
I have read that some Albanians consider the Arberesh spoke a purer form of old Albanian ... which in my mind merely shows a stronger Latin influence. I am curious about this.

Is the Gheg dialect dramatically different from Tosk? Has it changed much in recent times?
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