Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > Exposing Lies and Propaganda

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-06-2020, 12:58 AM   #121
Soldier of Macedon
Senior Member
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,381
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
Perhaps this was a general category to describe broad vocations. Example being the way all traders were described as "Greeks". Such that ... Vlachs = livestock herders, Bulgarians = farmers/grain etc, Greeks = traders
There was definitely some of that going on in the Balkans during the Ottoman era. I have also observed Croats refer to Serbs in the Krajina region as Vlachs in a derogatory manner, perhaps because in some cases the Orthodox peoples encountered by the ancestors of such Croats were originally Vlachs. That would not be too dissimilar to the example of Albanians in Greece using the term 'shklijra' as a pejorative for Greeks, despite its initial use for Slavic-speaking peoples: http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/sho...312#post183312
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2020, 08:58 AM   #122
Carlin
Senior Member
 
Carlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,759
Carlin has much to be proud ofCarlin has much to be proud ofCarlin has much to be proud ofCarlin has much to be proud ofCarlin has much to be proud ofCarlin has much to be proud ofCarlin has much to be proud ofCarlin has much to be proud ofCarlin has much to be proud of
Default

Serbs steal the Albanian history - Top Channel Albania Documentary with English Subtitles

Video targeted against the Serbs.

URL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaEI...ture=emb_title

^ 11:06 do 12:40:
"We have a very interesting source, exclusive to the beginning of the 12th century. It is a Serbian source, about the life of Stefan Nemanja. It is written in the early 12th century, a source that shows how Nemanja occupied Ulcinj, Tivar, Shkodra, Drisht, and also the area of Kosovo, Vranje, Lipljan, Prizren and the two Pologs. He went up to Skopje, up to Tetovo. This Serbian source not only shows the growing invasions of Stefan Nemanja but also uncovers new essential details regarding our research... This chronicle says that Stefan Nemanja found foreign people there. Non-Serbian people. He found foreign churches and priests... who he considers as Latin, meaning that they were Catholic. The policy implemented here was that of an occupied land. It's the end of the 12th century and early 13th century. ... Stefan Nemanja destroyed cities and castles from its foundations."

Apparently, it implies that ethnic Albanians lived across the entirety of these territories in the 12th century (?).

However, regarding the first set of cities/towns mentioned above (and appropriated as ethnic Albanian), we have the following source.

Directorium ad passagium faciendum

Around 1330, a Dominican (Catholic) monk wrote a message to the King of France to motivate him to campaign against the Orthodox Christians to subdue them to the Pope. This text is known as "Directorium ad passagium faciendum" and contains, among other things, some useful information on the area in question, that (became) and was already part of the medieval Serbian kingdom.

The following text is from "Directorium ad passagium faciendum" as published in the American publication "The American historical review", Vol. 13 (1908), pages 96 and 97. The original text is of course in Latin:

“Hoc inter cetera facit ad dictum regnum facilius capiendum quod sunt ibi duae nationes, una videlicet Albanensium et Latinorum, qui omnes sub fide et obedientia Romanae Ecclesiae perseuerant, et secundum hoc habent Archiepiscopos, Episcopos, et Abbates, ac inferiores status et gradus religiosos et clericos seculares. Latini habent sex ciuitates cum suis Episcopis, primam Antibarum archiepiscopalem, deinde Catharensem, Dulcedinensem, Suaciensem, Scutarensem, et Driuacensem; quas quidem solum Latini inhabitant. Populus vero earum siue Albanenses in tota ipsarum diocesi extra muros. Sunt etiam Albanensium quatuor ciuitates, videlicet Polati, Minoris, Salutensis, et Albanensis. Quae omnes cum praedictis ciuitatibus Latinorum Antibarensi Archiepiscopo et Ecclesiae jure metropolitico sunt subjectae. Et licet Albanenses aliam omnino linguam a Latina habeant et diuersam, tamen literam Latinam habent in usu et in omnibus suis libris.”

Focusing on the important part, it states clearly that the Latins have six cities (Catharensem, Dulcedinensem, Suaciensem, etc ...) in which ONLY LATINS live. Therefore, even as late as 1330 AD we have exclusively Roman Catholic & Latin-speaking towns in the Balkans. Therefore, these can't be considered ethnic Albanian as they were Latin-speaking outposts which were themselves obilterated/assimilated in subsequent centuries.


Also ^ 19:10 do 19:30:
"Medieval population registers show Albanians with Christian names ...such as Milosh, son of Jin. Bodislav, son of John. This was the result of assimilation policies that not only forced 14th century Albanians to change their faith, but also their names."
Carlin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2020, 08:20 AM   #123
Momce Makedonce
Member
 
Momce Makedonce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 502
Momce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud of
Default

Was going through some old football related stuff recently and came across this photo from an Australia vs Serbia Friendly game in Melbourne a good few years back. Seems to say “sloboda ili smrt” on the banner in the crowd with the Serbian fans. I was not aware that Serbs also used this slogan, anybody know anything in regard to this?
__________________
"The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task." Goce Delcev
Momce Makedonce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2020, 06:50 PM   #124
Karposh
Member
 
Karposh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 712
Karposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud ofKarposh has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momce Makedonce View Post
Was going through some old football related stuff recently and came across this photo from an Australia vs Serbia Friendly game in Melbourne a good few years back. Seems to say “sloboda ili smrt” on the banner in the crowd with the Serbian fans. I was not aware that Serbs also used this slogan, anybody know anything in regard to this?
It was actually quite a while ago now when I too found it surprising that others were using this slogan as well. I always assumed that it was an exclusively Macedonian slogan that was coined during the struggle against the Turks. It turns out, however, that it’s been around for a very long time and used by a number of oppressed peoples over the ages.

Some info from Wikipedia:
"Give me liberty, or give me death!" is a quotation attributed to Patrick Henry from a speech he made to the Second Virginia Convention on March 23, 1775, at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia.
The Greeks also used the slogan during their fight against the Turks apparently. It’s also the country’s national motto.
During the Russian Civil War, the flag used by Nestor Makhno's anarchist Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine had the dual slogans "Liberty or Death" and "The Land to the Peasants, the Factories to the Workers".
In March 1941, the motto of the public demonstrations in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia against the signing of a treaty with Nazi Germany was "Better grave than slave" (Bolje grob nego rob).

On a related matter, I find the quote from Dame Gruev at the congress of Smilevo really telling, which encapsulates the hopelessness of the situation Macedonians were faced with in their fight against the Turks. Knowing full well that they were no where near ready to start a rebellion against the might of the Ottoman Empire, in the end, a despondent Dame Gruev is quoted as having said “Better an end with horrors, rather than horrors without end” when they voted for St. Elijah day as the start date of the rebellion.
Karposh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 06:53 AM   #125
Momce Makedonce
Member
 
Momce Makedonce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 502
Momce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud ofMomce Makedonce has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karposh View Post
It was actually quite a while ago now when I too found it surprising that others were using this slogan as well. I always assumed that it was an exclusively Macedonian slogan that was coined during the struggle against the Turks. It turns out, however, that it’s been around for a very long time and used by a number of oppressed peoples over the ages.

Some info from Wikipedia:
"Give me liberty, or give me death!" is a quotation attributed to Patrick Henry from a speech he made to the Second Virginia Convention on March 23, 1775, at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia.
The Greeks also used the slogan during their fight against the Turks apparently. It’s also the country’s national motto.
During the Russian Civil War, the flag used by Nestor Makhno's anarchist Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine had the dual slogans "Liberty or Death" and "The Land to the Peasants, the Factories to the Workers".
In March 1941, the motto of the public demonstrations in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia against the signing of a treaty with Nazi Germany was "Better grave than slave" (Bolje grob nego rob).

On a related matter, I find the quote from Dame Gruev at the congress of Smilevo really telling, which encapsulates the hopelessness of the situation Macedonians were faced with in their fight against the Turks. Knowing full well that they were no where near ready to start a rebellion against the might of the Ottoman Empire, in the end, a despondent Dame Gruev is quoted as having said “Better an end with horrors, rather than horrors without end” when they voted for St. Elijah day as the start date of the rebellion.
Yeah that makes sense Karposh, I definitely wasn't aware it was used by so many different nationalities but there you go.

Agreed that quote by Dame perfectly captures the feeling that would have been present at that time in Macedonia. The everyday horror and poor conditions that Macedonians would have experienced in this period is something that is hard to imagine.
__________________
"The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task." Goce Delcev
Momce Makedonce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 09:22 AM   #126
Amphipolis
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,328
Amphipolis is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karposh View Post
On a related matter, I find the quote from Dame Gruev at the congress of Smilevo really telling, which encapsulates the hopelessness of the situation Macedonians were faced with in their fight against the Turks. Knowing full well that they were no where near ready to start a rebellion against the might of the Ottoman Empire, in the end, a despondent Dame Gruev is quoted as having said “Better an end with horrors, rather than horrors without end” when they voted for St. Elijah day as the start date of the rebellion.
This is a universally known quote by Ferdinand von Schill.
Amphipolis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump