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Old 08-04-2011, 12:39 AM   #61
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Bump - well worth another read.
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Old 08-07-2011, 03:16 AM   #62
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Is there a pdf version available or is the book still available in stores somewhere in the world?
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Old 12-26-2011, 11:31 PM   #63
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...c_of_Macedonia
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Jews also took part in the liberation movement against Ottoman rule. A great number of Macedonian Jews participated in the Ilinden-Preobrazhenie Uprising. One of the most notable participants was Rafael Moshe Kamhi who led one of the rebel groups. It was him who took part in the early activities of the movement under the nickname Skandereg (Skender-beg). He headed a unit in Debar during the uprising of 1903.[21] Mentes Kolomonos, Santo Aroesti, the Muson brothers and Avram Nisan are other known participants in the uprising who collected weapons and provided rebels with money.,[22][23]
http://www.jasenovac.org/images/jews..._1941_1945.pdf
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……..a great number of Jews participated in the “Ilinden” uprising of the Macedonian people (1903) and it was Rafael M. Kamhi (Skender-beg) who led one of the rebel groups.
http://www.ezrm.org.mk/index.php/en/history
Quote:
There is historical evidence of Jews participating in the Macedonian revolution (Rafael Kamhi was the head of the unit in Debar in the Ilinden Uprising; Mentes Kolomonos, Santo Aroesti, the Muson brothers and Avram Nisan were also participants). Jews also participated in the Young Turk Revolution, and many of them embraced the vision of Kemal Ataturk. In addition, there is evidence of communication between Gjorce Petrov and Theodor Herzl regarding the liberation of Macedonia.
http://elmundosefarad.wikidot.com/je...-prior-to-1941
Quote:
The development and welfare of the Jewish communities depended on the development of the wider community. So the Jews shared the hard destiny of the Macedonian people and the other minorities, took part in the wars and uprisings, struggled together with the others against economic difficulties and bad weather conditions. They always supported the Macedonian liberation movements to the best of their ability and knowledge.

In 1903 the Jews took an active part in the great Ilinden Uprising. Thus, [[Raphael Kamhi]] (1870—1969) from Bitola maintained close contact with the leaders of the Uprising and, therefore, was able to hand down important information about that period. His memoirs (handwritten) give evidence of his participation in the preparations for the Uprising and his personal contacts with its leaders Gjorche Petrov, Dame Gruev, Pere Toshev and Gotse Delchev. As he was particularly close to Gjorche Petrov, he enrolled in his company and was charged with the collection of funds, guns and ammunition.

All Jewish communities in Macedonia had a bias towards the Uprising and contributed to it in one way or another. For example, Mentesh Kamhi supplied it with weapons, the brothers Mush on and Abram Nisan, milkmen from Bitola, often transported guns and othei necessities; Santo Aruesti collected money and Peris provided the companies with guns and medical supplies. The Uprising was also supported by Jews from other cities, the greatest help coming from the Salonica Jews.
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:35 AM   #64
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Светскиот печат за Македонија по Илинденското востание



Во Крушевскиот манифест јасно и недвосмислено е потенцирано залагањето на македонските востаници за правилна војна за ослободување на Македонија и за ненапаѓање на турското цивилно население:

„Ние не дигнафне пушка протиф вас - това би било страм за нас; ние не дигнафне пушка протиф мирнио, трудољубивио и чеснио турски нарот, шчо се прерануат, како нас со крваф пот - тој јет наш брат и со него сне живејале и пак сакаме да живејме; ние не излегофне да колиме и да грабиме, да палиме и да крадиме - доста ни сет зулумите на безбројните деребеи по нашата сирота и окрвавена Македонија; ние не излегофне да порисјанчуваме и да бесчестиме вашите мјаки и сестри, жени и ќерки; требит да знајте оти вашио имот, вашио живот, вашата вера и вашата чес ни сет толку скапи, колку шчо ни сет скапи нашите.“

За жал, ваквите високо цивилизациски и хумани вредности на македонските востаници не ги делеле османлиските војници. Па, така по крвавото задушување на Илинденското востание, османлиската армија масакрирала огромен број на невооружени македонски цивили и запалила повеќе македонски села.

Ваквата тажна слика за случувањата по Илинденското востание е опишана во весникот „Colonist“ од 21. август 1903 година:

„Турските трупи, кои скоро го окупираа Крушево, го масакрираа целото христијанско население во градот, вклучително и вработените во тутунската компанија, која е под европска контрола.“

Оваа статија не претставува никаков исклучок. Статии со слична содржина за убиства на македонски невооружени цивили од страна на османлиската војска можат да се најдат во повеќе светски весници од тој период. Во францускиот весник „La Vie Populaire“ од 25. септември 1903 година, целата насловна страна е посветена на ваквите крвави настани (слика долу лево).

На самата илустрација може да се види како османлиската војска поминува покрај масакрираните тела на македонското цивилно население на Крушево. Под илустрацијата стои текстот:

„Прикази (се однесува на илустрацијата) направени од еден од нашите дописници, од главните улици на несреќното место (Крушево), по убиствата и грабежите од страна на турските војници...“

По повод убиствата на недолжното македонско цивилно население, големиот македонски револуционер Даме Груев ќе испрати протестно писмо до Хилми Паша во кое директно ќе му порача:

„...Да се прекинат насилствата, грабежите и колежот на мирното немухамеданско население...Впрочем, вие сте должни да водите со нас правилна војна.“

За ова пишува и во престижниот американски весник „The New York Times“ (2. септември, 1903):

„... Водачот на револуционерите, Даме Груев, со писмо побара од Хилми Паша да ги прекине варварските акти на турските војници и башибозукот ...“

Во истата статија се опишани и дел од овие варварски акти врз недолжното македонско цивилно население:

„...Турските војници во ноќта го масакрираа целото население од 180 мажи и 200 жени. Турците, исто така, го масакрираа населенитето на селото Велеси.“

*Под називот „турски војници“ се мисли на војници на Отоманската Империја.

Александар Стеванов, објавено и на Македонска Нација

http://networkedblogs.com/wkwTK

Google translator :-
World press for Macedonia after the Ilinden Uprising
In Krusevo Manifesto clearly and unambiguously outlined the efforts of the Macedonian insurgents for proper war for liberation of Macedonia and the Turkish non-aggression civilian population:

"We have not raised against you - That would be our shame, we have not raised against the peaceful diligent and honest Turkish people who, who feeds, like us by blood and sweat - he is our brother and lived with him and then we to live, we have not risen to slaughter and plunder, to set fire to kradime - rather we set the whims of countless derebei after our poor and stained Macedonia; we have not risen to convert to Christianity and disgrace your mothers and sisters, wives and daughters ought to know that your property, your lives, your faith and your honor are so expensive, how expensive who feeds us set our own. "

Unfortunately, these highly civilized and humane values ​​of the Macedonian insurgents do not share the Ottoman troops. Well, so after the bloody suppression of the Ilinden Uprising, the Ottoman army massacred a large number of unarmed civilians and set fire to Macedonian several Macedonian villages.

Such a sad picture of the events after the Ilinden uprising is described in the newspaper "Colonist" of 21. August 1903:

"Turkish troops, who occupied nearly Krusevo, massacred the entire Christian population of the city, including employees of the tobacco company, which has been under European control."

This article is no exception. Articles with similar content for the murder of Macedonian unarmed civilians by Ottoman Army can be found in many world newspapers of that period. The French newspaper "La Vie Populaire" by 25. September 1903, the entire front page is devoted to such bloody events (photo below left).

In the illustration can be seen as the Ottoman army passing masakriranite bodies of Macedonian civilians in town. Under standing illustration text:

"Displays (refer to illustration) made by one of our correspondents, the main streets of unfortunate place (Krusevo) after killing and looting by the Turkish troops ..."

On the occasion of the murder of innocent Macedonian civilian population, the great Macedonian revolutionary Dame Gruev will send a protest letter to Hilmi Pasha which will directly told:

"... To stop the violence, looting and slaughter of peaceful nemuhamedansko population ... Actually, you are obliged to keep us regular war."

This writes the prestigious American newspaper "The New York Times" (September 2, 1903):

"... The leader of the revolutionaries, Dame Gruev, letter asked Hilmi Pasha to stop the barbaric acts of the Turkish soldiers and bashibozukot ... "

The same article described some of these barbaric acts against innocent Macedonian civilian population:

"... Turkish soldiers in the night massacred the entire population of 180 men and 200 women. Turks also massacred naseleniteto village Veles. "

* Under the title "Turkish soldiers" think of the soldiers of the Ottoman Empire.

Alexander Stevanov published the Macedonian Nation
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Old 01-30-2017, 02:17 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albo
At every stage of the modern history of Macedonia Albanians have been involved .. eg, Krushevo Republic, (where most of the weapons were supplied by Albanians..........the cherry wood cannon was supplied by Albanians.....
Can you provide any sources from the time (or close to it) which indicate that ethnic Albanians provided "most" of the weapons and the "cherry wood cannon" to the Macedonian revolutionaries?
Quote:
.....many fought alongside the Half Albanian half Vlachs Pitu Guli
Who are those many? Do you honestly think more fought alongside the Macedonian revolutionaries or against them as Turkish lackeys (i.e. bashibozuks)? What evidence is there that Pitu Guli was "half Albanian" (by that I assume you mean half ethnic Albanian), aside from some claims that his mother came from Albania? Provide actual sources from the time.
Quote:
.....the Krushevo republics parliament was to be made up of 60 members 20 Macedonians 20 Albanians and 20 Vlachs.
Let's clear something up about Krushevo. It first entered into written record around the middle of the 15th century, and given its name, it was a Macedonian settlement. At the end of the 18th century, there was a significant population influx after Ali Pasha (your fellow ethnic Albanian) decided to destroy Moskopole. Thousands of Vlachs arrived in Krushevo and some Christian Albanians followed. Macedonians from other parts of Macedonia also moved there. Just over a 100 years later, at the beginning of the 20th century and only a few years before the Ilinden Uprising, the Bulgarian ethnographer Vasil K'nchov recorded that Krushevo consisted of 9,350 inhabitants, only 400 of which were Christian Albanians. The rest were about evenly spread between Vlachs and those whom he called "Bulgarians" (adherents of the Exarchate) - but which he himself admits call themselves Macedonians. By such accounts, ethnic Albanians were an insignificant (and Christian) minority in the town compared to Macedonians and Vlachs. In relation to what you wrote above, again, provide an actual source from the time which states that there were "20 Albanians" in the parliament.

I have read about these assertions from Albanians in the past but none have actually corroborated them with evidence from the period in question. If you could do so it would make for an interesting discussion. If you can't, I would suggest you cease making such claims.
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Old 01-30-2017, 06:10 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Can you provide any sources from the time (or close to it) which indicate that ethnic Albanians provided "most" of the weapons and the "cherry wood cannon" to the Macedonian revolutionaries?

Who are those many? Do you honestly think more fought alongside the Macedonian revolutionaries or against them as Turkish lackeys (i.e. bashibozuks)? What evidence is there that Pitu Guli was "half Albanian" (by that I assume you mean half ethnic Albanian), aside from some claims that his mother came from Albania? Provide actual sources from the time.

Let's clear something up about Krushevo. It first entered into written record around the middle of the 15th century, and given its name, it was a Macedonian settlement. At the end of the 18th century, there was a significant population influx after Ali Pasha (your fellow ethnic Albanian) decided to destroy Moskopole. Thousands of Vlachs arrived in Krushevo and some Christian Albanians followed. Macedonians from other parts of Macedonia also moved there. Just over a 100 years later, at the beginning of the 20th century and only a few years before the Ilinden Uprising, the Bulgarian ethnographer Vasil K'nchov recorded that Krushevo consisted of 9,350 inhabitants, only 400 of which were Christian Albanians. The rest were about evenly spread between Vlachs and those whom he called "Bulgarians" (adherents of the Exarchate) - but which he himself admits call themselves Macedonians. By such accounts, ethnic Albanians were an insignificant (and Christian) minority in the town compared to Macedonians and Vlachs. In relation to what you wrote above, again, provide an actual source from the time which states that there were "20 Albanians" in the parliament.

I have read about these assertions from Albanians in the past but none have actually corroborated them with evidence from the period in question. If you could do so it would make for an interesting discussion. If you can't, I would suggest you cease making such claims.
========================
Sorry been a bit busy of late and can't really spend too much time responding to everyone on here...

=================

Just a few quick links on the above topic.. I'll post more in the future

Amongst the various ethno-religious groups (millets) in Kruševo a Republican Council was elected with 60 members - 20 representatives from each one: Aromanians (Vlachs); Slav-, Vlach- and Albanian-speaking Greek Patriarchists and Macedonian Bulgarians (Exarchists).[7][8][9][10][11] The Council also elected an executive body - the Provisional Government, with six members (2 from each mentioned group),[12] whose duty was to promote law and order and manage supplies, finances, and medical care.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kru%C5%A1evo_Republic

========÷÷================

Without albanians, Krusevo Republic would have been forgotten.

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Witho...n.-a0205988106

===========================
You can see here in Pitu Gulis brigade all those wearing the traditional Albanian white skull cap are Albanian!



===========================
Page 225 also mentions the 20 20 20 split in the parliament..

https://books.google.com.au/books?id...epublic&f=true
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Old 01-30-2017, 06:41 AM   #67
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First, the wikipedia extract above doesn't mention anything about "20 Albanians". Second, the next link is just a summary of the writings of a certain Rexhat Nexhipi. Third, the picture of Pitu Guli's brigade is not appearing on screen (you may have to upload it again). Fourth, the last link you posted only indicates the opinion of somebody. I think I was pretty clear in my post. I asked you to provide actual sources either from or near that time to corroborate the following:

1) Ethnic Albanians provided "most" of the weapons for the uprising in Krusevo
2) Ethnic Albanians provided the "cherry wood cannon" to the Macedonian revolutionaries
3) Many ethnic Albanians assisted the Macedonian revolutionaries in Krusevo
4) Pitu Guli is half ethnic Albanian
5) 20 Albanians were part of the parliament in Krusevo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albo View Post
Sorry been a bit busy of late and can't really spend too much time responding to everyone on here...
I can understand that you may be busy, but in future refrain from making such assertions until you're actually prepared to back them up with actual sources from or near that period. It's not that I completely doubt everything you've said (although I find it highly unlikely), but I can't allow you to present such matters as fact when you've failed to provide any supportive evidence. If the sources are in a language you cannot understand then at the very least provide the chapter and page number and I will translate it here.
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:24 AM   #68
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Look the fact that Albanians were involved in the Krushevo republic Uprising has never been questioned..
They were a factor on both sides.. either fighting as rebels or as paid mercenaries on side of the empire...

Translate this.. commnets from Vlado Popovski!

http://koha.net/?id=8&arkiva=1&l=110038
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Old 01-30-2017, 08:06 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Albo View Post
Look the fact that Albanians were involved in the Krushevo republic Uprising has never been questioned..
They were a factor on both sides.. either fighting as rebels or as paid mercenaries on side of the empire...
Albo, I have never denied that some ethnic Albanians assisted the Macedonian revolutionaries, but much more fought against them. The fact is, you have failed to corroborate any of the 5 assertions you made with actual sources from that period. You will therefore cease repeating these assertions until you finally decide to spend some time to properly research the topic and locate supportive documentation. Right now, what you've said amounts to little more than innuendo randomly picked up from some ill-informed website catering to Albanian delusions. You will not be afforded the privilege of regurgitating that here. Do some proper research. I have. It's a worthy effort.
Quote:
Translate this.. commnets from Vlado Popovski!

http://koha.net/?id=8&arkiva=1&l=110038
I translated it, it provides no reference to actual sources from the time.
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Old 01-30-2017, 08:32 AM   #70
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Vlado Popovski is a well known Macedonian HISTORIAN... He knows and has read more on the history of Macedonia than probably everyone in this forum... his comments hold weight..

Here have a read here.. more mention of the 20,20,20 council..
It was a multi ethnic Uprising.. that was a reflection of the population than and as it is today.
It would have gained more support from the Albanians but it was rejected by the Albanian elites at the time as being disorganized and underfunded..


https://books.google.com.au/books?id...ouncil&f=false


Repost of earlier picture where Albanians wearing White scull caps are part of the brigade

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kru%...uli%2C1903.jpg
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