The Pelasgians

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  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    #16
    makedonche did i comment on the issue no what was my idea to stimulate discussion.Read the threads on the rosetta stone,belchevski,vasil illov finds you will see that i wrote they needed to cooberate their findings.I even tried to get them to come on the MTO to discuss
    their findings.THey are not willing to discuss them.TM is just jumping the gun there hoping
    to score points or brownies.What is he trying to achieve.Whils't thesese people are learned people & trying to find some sort of acceptance in the scientific community.But we hit them with the proverbial sledgehammer.
    As long as we have an attitude problem of hate & resentment of each other of a learnered macedonian person trying to write our own history.Pleas look at what the greeks have achieved & they have stamped it any which way they wanted with their own slant on the history.So if you want history you will be competing with the greeks & bulgarians & who knows you might find truth there. if you are lucky enough to get through the lies.
    Last edited by George S.; 12-18-2012, 10:53 PM. Reason: ed
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • TrueMacedonian
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2009
      • 3810

      #17
      Originally posted by George S. View Post
      i don't think tm you got it yourself.I did not comment originally on what i posted it was a matter of interst i let other people do it in the mean time i get criticised fopr posting it.I didn't know anything until i received the email.
      But i got a rsesponse from Risto Stefov & this is his feeling on the matter:
      excerpt from email
      Zdravo George,

      If Macedonian historians DON'T write about these things; they are tormented by other Macedonians! If they DO write they are tormented again! There is no winning with us Macedonians.

      We don't need enemies; we have ourselves! Is that a way of UNITING our people by pounding them on the head with a sledge hammer every time they dare to speak?

      George, I will not dignify this by replying to it nor will I pass it on to Dr. Popovski and insult him for doing what many historians should have done a long time ago!!!!

      I was called stupid, an idiot, a moron and a number of other lovely terms BY MACEDONIAND when I first said ten years ago "There is no such thing as a Greek and the Greek identity is fake and made-up"!!! Now, ten years later "everyone is saying it, including our leading critic of Dr. Popovski"! So, was I an idiot and a moron? Ten years from now we will see who is right and who is wrong regarding Dr. Popovski's work!

      So Dr. Popovski is a "Junk Yard Historian!" And who is a good historian? I would like to give everyone an opportunity to plant a seed; if it is a viable seed it will produce when conditions are right; if not no big loss. But I can guaranty you nothing will be yielded if we keep hitting people on the head because we don't like what they say; or because they are an embarrassment to "Macedonia"! Who determines ifthey are an embarasment? Nameless forum worriorst? Elected authorities chosen by the people? Even those elected by the people are not "good enough" for your forum!!! So, who is good enough????? And how high is the bar set here??? Will any Macedonian be able to clear it? Does Delchev qualify to be a good Macedonian?

      Let me ask you this George: "Who benefits from this kind of hammer over the head criticism?", do we or do our enemies? And how in God's name are we ever going to unite the Macedonian people with these kinds of attitudes? Whether we know it or not; whether we like it or not; this kind of criticisms is what is keeping us DIVIDED and it only serves our enemies because instead of being sencistive to our people and asking for proof or clarification and focusing on the positive things, we outright attack them, their person, at their core! I guess we are learning from the Greeks after all!!!!

      Pozdrav, Risto...

      I hope you guys got it the more we know of different points of view the better.
      Prior to this i didn't know of poposki now i do.We all have a right to our own opinions.
      So now criticism should be avoided so we can write our own history. Irregardless of the fact that evidence for cavemen Macedonian alphabet soup DOES NOT EXIST!!! Do you see the problem here George? Big deal if Macedonians can write a history book. It certainly doesn't mean the content contains any truth to it. And that is what is important in the end. Truth. Not passing off fictions like the grks.
      Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

      Comment

      • TrueMacedonian
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2009
        • 3810

        #18
        Originally posted by George S. View Post
        TM you got a choice either macedonians start writing their own history or others will write it for them. at least I can see what a sham Popovski is and why he is a cancer to Macedonia instead of a cure."This is where you are wrong the more that is written the better.I resrved my opinion until people commented.Whils't i don't agree with everything popski says & may be far fetched who can cooberate given the historic dealings it has to have.One thing you can't stand is people who you think are wrong simply because they can't cooberate.It would be good for you to let loose & find out how the professor feels with the limited resources & your high expectations that you have.Do you want the greeks to write your history & then you can cut & paste where it says macedonia.
        So you should find out a bit more of this Dr popski what he's written & what he is trying to achieve instead you are driving them into the ground all because they are macedonian.
        I hope you got that TM.
        __________________
        I want you to understand something toadie, "dr" popski NEEDS to corroborate his history before he passes it off as definitively and scientifically accurate. Did you read Stefov's translation or did you choose to ignore those snippets?
        Btw you remarked a few times about me cutting and pasting. But it is exactly MY cutting and pasting that your buddy Stefov has countlessly used in his articles and even in his newest book. And it is my cutting and pasting that even you enjoyed yourself. Your Stefov article topic remains void of any participation. You should wonder why.
        Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

        Comment

        • makedonche
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2008
          • 3242

          #19
          Originally posted by George S. View Post
          makedonche did i comment on the issue no what was my idea to stimulate discussion.Read the threads on the rosetta stone,belchevski,vasil illov finds you will see that i wrote they needed to cooberate their findings.I even tried to get them to come on the MTO to discuss
          their findings.THey are not willing to discuss them.TM is just jumping the gun there hoping
          to score points or brownies.What is he trying to achieve.Whils't thesese people are learned people & trying to find some sort of acceptance in the scientific community.But we hit them with the proverbial sledgehammer.
          As long as we have an attitude problem of hate & resentment of each other of a learnered macedonian person trying to write our own history.Pleas look at what the greeks have achieved & they have stamped it any which way they wanted with their own slant on the history.So if you want history you will be competing with the greeks & bulgarians & who knows you might find truth there. if you are lucky enough to get through the lies.
          George
          It's not about your comments or opinions, you are entitled to them without reservation, but like all of us, they will also be challenged for authenticity and accuracy - fair for all concerned. It worries me that they don't want to come here to the MTO to discuss their findings or have us question them, that shows fear of critical assesment - which is a sign of uncertainty as to the accuracy of the content. The Greeks and Bulgarians are being exposed day by day for what they truly are, but sometimes the truth takes longer to take hold, it's better to do it slowly and accurately than to open ourselves to ridicule - the truth will remain long after we are gone, but bullshit inevitibly gets discarded sooner or later, particularly in this day and age of lightning communication and unlimited resources.
          Pozdrav
          On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

          Comment

          • TrueMacedonian
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2009
            • 3810

            #20
            Originally posted by makedonche View Post
            George
            It's not about your comments or opinions, you are entitled to them without reservation, but like all of us, they will also be challenged for authenticity and accuracy - fair for all concerned. It worries me that they don't want to come here to the MTO to discuss their findings or have us question them, that shows fear of critical assesment - which is a sign of uncertainty as to the accuracy of the content. The Greeks and Bulgarians are being exposed day by day for what they truly are, but sometimes the truth takes longer to take hold, it's better to do it slowly and accurately than to open ourselves to ridicule - the truth will remain long after we are gone, but bullshit inevitibly gets discarded sooner or later, particularly in this day and age of lightning communication and unlimited resources.
            Pozdrav
            Makedonche I wonder if this popski is even a "dr" at all. I do know that he was a co-author of a book on nostradamus if this means anything. So I imagine his participation on a forum that has the word "truth" in it will likely not come to fruition. Unless of course nostradamus wrote a quattrain that he will.
            Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

            Comment

            • makedonche
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2008
              • 3242

              #21
              Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
              Makedonche I wonder if this popski is even a "dr" at all. I do know that he was a co-author of a book on nostradamus if this means anything. So I imagine his participation on a forum that has the word "truth" in it will likely not come to fruition. Unless of course nostradamus wrote a quattrain that he will.
              TM
              Good question! Although I'm not fussed about titles, for example you are more knowledgable than most Dr.'s, professors, and wannabees!
              I think the facts presented will stand up on their own and also withstand scrutiny - if scrutiny is denied then the question needs to be asked - why? what are you afraid of? - like most of the Grcko propoganda and misinformation dished out in the last few hundred years, once you scrutinise it the real truth emerges!
              On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

              Comment

              • George S.
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 10116

                #22
                look at you all like a pack of vultures waiting to get your fill.I didn't know anything about popovski,i don't know if he is a doctor or a quack.The fact is he wrote a book we should get a copy & analyze what he says if it's bs we should tell him so.On some things yes he speaks the truth but on others he needs more evidence .Personally i wish him luck as he will need it to persuade the scientific community to acept his theories.But let him have his say & then you can shoot his theories in flames.You can't disagree with someone just because you hate him you have to have evidence yourself.I would rather beleive our macedonian people then to see what the greeks have conjured up.The other side have done more & a whole lot more of it.
                "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                GOTSE DELCEV

                Comment

                • makedonche
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 3242

                  #23
                  Originally posted by George S. View Post
                  look at you all like a pack of vultures waiting to get your fill.I didn't know anything about popovski,i don't know if he is a doctor or a quack.The fact is he wrote a book we should get a copy & analyze what he says if it's bs we should tell him so.On some things yes he speaks the truth but on others he needs more evidence .Personally i wish him luck as he will need it to persuade the scientific community to acept his theories.But let him have his say & then you can shoot his theories in flames.You can't disagree with someone just because you hate him you have to have evidence yourself.I would rather beleive our macedonian people then to see what the greeks have conjured up.The other side have done more & a whole lot more of it.
                  GeorgeS
                  Po poleka be bratko! No one is attacking you or putting you down, it's to do with credibility and earning it. The members here should be critical and ask questions - that's how we test for the truth and discover it, we are not vultures of people, we are vultures for the truth.
                  i admire Popovski and anybody else that puts time and effort into writing about Macedonia and the Macedonians, but I wouldn't go down the same path of the Grci with their propoganda, otherwise we become like them- that's just what they want so they can say "see they are like us they must be Greek" - gospod da chuva!
                  On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

                  Comment

                  • George S.
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 10116

                    #24
                    this was a good article to discuss but you all became apprehensive & turned it into an attack on me.Blaming me as if my credibility is on the line & you are so scaqred of articles like that then you shouldn't be on this forum discussing anything really..I have come to understand why they are doing what they are doing kako so lazat grcite i bulgarite itie probat so takva borba.Like it or not they rewsponding with the same shit.Did i say i approved of that NO did i say i support that NO i said i only support some of the things but not where something needs cooberation.So guys you forgot you shot the messenge i only put that there to make you aware.
                    We have to understand why they are doing it & it's not going to be palatable because some only care for the truth.The truth is not going to eearn us points but the amount of lying & bs we do.
                    Last edited by George S.; 12-19-2012, 11:20 PM.
                    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                    GOTSE DELCEV

                    Comment

                    • makedonche
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 3242

                      #25
                      Originally posted by George S. View Post
                      this was a good article to discuss but you all became apprehensive & turned it into an attack on me.Blaming me as if my credibility is on the line & you are so scaqred of articles like that then you shouldn't be on this forum discussing anything really..I have come to understand why they are doing what they are doing kako so lazat grcite i bulgarite itie probat so takva borba.Like it or not they rewsponding with the same shit.Did i say i approved of that NO did i say i support that NO i said i only support some of the things but not where something needs cooberation.So guys you forgot you shot the messenge i only put that there to make you aware.
                      We have to understand why they are doing it & it's not going to be palatable because some only care for the truth.The truth is not going to eearn us points but the amount of lying & bs we do.
                      GeorgeS
                      We didn't shoot the messenger! We are only saying read the info before you post it - if it isn't credible, perhaps it shouldn't be posted?
                      What do you think?
                      On Delchev's sarcophagus you can read the following inscription: "We swear the future generations to bury these sacred bones in the capital of Independent Macedonia. August 1923 Illinden"

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        #26
                        I agree with TM. Some of the stuff that has been written by Popovski and cited by Stefov is so ridiculous that it works against the Macedonian Cause. The Macedonians need more quality historians who do their research properly and present their case in a convincing manner.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Nexus
                          Junior Member
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 73

                          #27
                          By the way, have anyone a good websites or documents on pelasgians ?

                          Comment

                          • momce
                            Banned
                            • Oct 2012
                            • 426

                            #28
                            Its good enough for me to show they were not greeks. The rest can be a working hypothesis.

                            Comment

                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Nexus View Post
                              By the way, have anyone a good websites or documents on pelasgians ?
                              Believe it or not, this is a decent start.

                              Comment

                              • momce
                                Banned
                                • Oct 2012
                                • 426

                                #30
                                I think its safe to say the "ancient greeks" probably tried to wipe out any traces of others when they entered and took over what later they called "greece". But pre-greek remnants can still be studied. Its interesting because the materials surrounding the "founding" of ancient greek cities are almost unknown to us. My view is that perhaps there were no "Greek" migrations(there may have been Hellenic migrations or proto-Hellenic note not greek)at all and it was an internal event from a larger related process or family of processes. "Ancient greek" may just be a distinctly religio-cultic expression-phenomenon only partially related to tribal phenomenon. It explains the plasticity of ancient greek culture and why non-greek peoples could esaily adopt ancient greek culture or could even be mistaken for greeks(like the ancient Macedonians) and why this socalled "Hellenism" would collapse once the ancient greeks lost their political, economic power and their religious cults were shattered. The micro-research here is very important.
                                Last edited by momce; 02-16-2013, 01:45 PM.

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