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#1 | ||||||||||||||||||
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![]() Isocrates was an Attic orator who lived during the 4th century BC, and was a contemporary of Phillip II of Macedon and Demosthenes, another Attic orator. Demosthenes was vehemently opposed to Phillip and Macedonia, as he saw the true intention of the Macedonians and their desire to subjugate the Hellenic city-states and their people. Isocrates, on the other hand, unwittingly thought it more beneficial to the Hellenes if Phillip could be persuaded to treat them as friends. As a result of Macedonian royalty claiming descent from a god (Heracles, no less), a fiction that originates from Herodotus' story about Alexander 'Philhellene' and the Olympic games, Isocrates appealed to the supposed ‘Hellenic’ descent of Phillip, stroking the Macedonian’s ego, who was being likened to a god by this opportunistic old fool.
Here is an example of Isocrates’ false hopes, naivety and flattery: Quote:
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http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...read.php?t=681 Quote:
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=1073 Isocrates speaks against the majority Hellenes represented by Demosthenes, calling their very real concerns about Phillip's true (and ultimate) intentions mere rubbish, as indicated in the following text: Quote:
Isocrates' views of Macedonia and the Macedonian people are markedly different from that of the Macedonian kings. Quote:
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In conclusion, it is critical to cite the words of Pausanias: Quote:
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#2 | |
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![]() Quote:
Nice assessment SoM.
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#3 |
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![]() Thanks RtG.
Given that Isocrates is psychotically cited by internet Greeks, I thought it appropriate to expose the holes in their inaccurate theories and false assertions. I think the article achieves this, and of course, should anybody wish to challenge the above, they are more than welcome to.
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#4 |
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![]() The context is all important, and you have provided the context. Thanks SoM.
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#5 |
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![]() Indeed Pelister, taking things out of context is the Greek way, bringing them back into context and proper perspective is the Macedonian way.
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In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian. |
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#6 |
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![]() This is an excellent topic SoM. Your sources are all solid. And I don't think the internet grks will be able to argue any of the above that you posted.
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#7 |
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![]() Nice Job SoM.
All we have to do is read it properly, and it is mostly self explanatory.
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#8 |
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![]() It does explain itself, so long as the proper context is taken into consideration. This is the key to cutting through the fog created by modern Greeks during the last 200 years, the situation is only as complicated as one makes it.
Peter Green's take on it is quite sober and objective, his opinion can hardly be refuted by modern Greeks and philhellenic scholars, there can be no doubt that the only thing that Isocrates had achieved was that he unwittingly, supplied him with the propaganda-line he needed. From now on he merely had to clothe his Macedonian ambitions in a suitable Panhellenic dress...... The poor fool gave Phillip the perfect idea for subjugating the Hellenes, which was taken advantage of by the Macedonians, to the fullest extent. History is full of Macedonian battles against the Hellenes, Isocrates would have died 10 times over had he known about all of the other Macedonian victories against the Hellenes in subsequent years. I guess he was as naive as modern Greeks are today about what the Macedonian kings represented.
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#9 |
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![]() Hi S.O.M.
Great work. To further add to it, I feel Isocrates' letter to Philip should be seen together directly in comparison with Demosthenes' response to Philip as they both respresent the two main Greek approaches to the inevitable forseeability of Macedonia's future invasion and enslavement of Greece. While Demosthenes takes the line of total definance, Isocrates on the other hand takes a Neville Chamberlain like approach of appeasement in order to try to gain the best outcome for the Greeks in the inevitable recognition that Macedonia will soon invade and occupy Greece. Isocrates to attempts to appeal to Philip to go easy on the Greeks by invoking the of Argive myth of the Macedonian royal family (the Argead house) being descended from Greeks originating from Argos. It is interesting to note that when Demosthenes states the Philip is 'not a Greek nor related to the Greeks', he is commonly misinterpreted as referring to the Macedonian people in general as being 'not Greek'. This is not the case. From Demosthenes and Isocrates works it is clear that they both considered Macedonians to be a non-Greek foreign people as a generally acknowledged universal fact. When Demosthenes states that Philip is 'not a Greek' he is directly attacking the Argive myth of the Argead house being descended from Argive Greeks. When Demosthenes states that Philip is 'not a Greek' he is stating that he is not an 'Argive Greek', but is simply as non-Greek foreigner who has no connection to the Greeks whatsoever (he is simply just a Macedonian, a non-Greek people who don't even make good slaves). Last edited by Napoleon; 07-17-2009 at 07:45 PM. |
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#10 | |||
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![]() An Argive myth conjured by Alexander Philhellene and Herodotus.
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In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian. |
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Tags |
ancient macedonia, ancient macedonians, demosthenes, greeks, hellenes, isocrates, macedon, macedonia, macedonians, phillip ii |
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