Isocrates - Letter to Phillip II of Macedon (4th Century BC)

[Louis Riel]

Originally Posted by Agamoi Thytai

Does anyone know if anything writen in any other language besides Greek (and some times Latin,afetr the Roman conquest) was ever found in Macedonian graves in all three Macedonian territories (Vardar,Aegean and Pirin) ?

So like Bill said....the answer is "no",right?

To answer your question...you will find hundreds of thousands of graves in Macedonia that have cyrillic writing on them...not Greek or Latin.

[George S.]

Yes louis there were cyrillic writings but on the greek side why did the greeks try to destroy them & change them to greek ones only.Well i'll tell you to spread the myth that macedonians were greek & even in death its greek writing.The greeks don't want you to know that they have been ripping graveyrds for years being recent or even ancient ones & changing their names to greek ones.Greeks can run but they can't hide.A lot of their myths have been busted.

[Makedonetz]

George S Greece is living in a world of lies since the 1st day the implant of falcification was planted into their brains. Their own history is scrowded in a black cloud so they go and steal other peoples historys who they have no fucking idea what we really are.

Greece should have a stamp called "Made in germany, Hellarse forgery"

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Agamoi Thytai

Why is it impossible to apply the same on the Macedonians?Because Demosthenes,the paid Persian agent labeled Philip as "barbarian"?

Demosthenes may have been affiliated with the Persians in one way or another, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the Hellenes were. It was his voice, and not that of Isocrates, that was heard, condoned and followed by the Hellenes. Even after his death this so-called Persian agent was praised by the Hellenes, who wrote at the base of his statue that: Had you for Hellas been strong, as wise you were, The Macedonian had not conquered her. Demosthenes may be disliked by modern Greeks like you, but to the people who actually mattered, the ancient Hellenes, he was largely a popular figure. As Plutarch states: all Greece seemed to have recovered her confidence and was up in arms to support Demosthenes for the future.

Being "Not of kindred race" was a usual label that frequently ancient Greeks applied to other fellow Greeks.The actual Greek term used by Isocrates,"ουχ' ομοφύλου γένους" or his equivalent "αλλοφύλου γένους" is used in many ancient Greek texts to describe the tribal differences among Athenians,Spartans,Thebans e.t.c.

Isocrates makes a clear distinction between Macedonians and Hellenes, don't embarrass yourself by trying to claim otherwise. Hellenes did not "frequently" refer to other Hellenes as 'foreigners' either, all you're doing is cherry picking a few quotes, as there is nothing you can produce to compare with the several citations relating to the Macedonians as a distinct people and foreigners by both Hellenes and Romans.

Philip's Argead origin may have been mythical,but nevertheless it was never challenged by anyone in ancient time,and this speaks volumes.

It was challenged during the time of Alexander, Archelaus and Phillip, directly and indirectly. It was a myth. Scythians did it, so did the Romans and others. Hardly any of the claims were challenged, not literally anyway.

Most of you Macedonians don't know who really Isocrates was and what he actually represented.I've seen many of you quoting his famous passage but no one has understand what he really meant

Spare me, your interpretation is narrow and tailor made to fit your story. If Isocrates meant Athenians and not Hellenes, then he would not have mentioned the latter. He words are clear enough - the name of 'Hellene' extends beyond the Hellenic people and can also refer to those with a classical education, which excludes any ethnic connotation. An African could be as Hellenic as Phillip and Alexander minus the obvious genetical particulars.

So Isocrates was first and foremost an Athenian chauvinist and you may have a point here:He was trying to turn Philip's attention towards Persia instead of Athens.

.
Instead of Greece. Phillip and his Macedonians had designs on the whole of Greece and not just Athens, stop trying to contain what is in fact a larger picture.

Macedonians before Alexander's time were almost constantly engaged in wars against Illyrians and Thracian tribes and in the same passage of Polybius there is mentioned their war against the invading Gauls.Even a Roman,Appian aknowledged that Macedonia was the shield of Greece:

Macedonians protected Macedonia, not Greece, which found itself to be luckily located to the south.

Not that he was the only Roman who held a similar view.Pliny the elder wrote:
"Such, at all events,were the opinions generally entertained in the reign of Alexander the Great, at a time when Greece was at the height of her glory, and the most powerful country in the world".

Pliny is obviously incorrect in this instance and his statement is easily refuted by other sources. Alexander was the king of Macedonia. Greece wasn't a country per se, nor was it a part of Macedonia (although controlled by the Macedonians), it was a league of states, and the environment which is labelled 'glorious' was no longer in existence after the Macedonian conquest of Greece.

[Louis Riel]

Originally Posted by George S.

Yes louis there were cyrillic writings but on the greek side why did the greeks try to destroy them & change them to greek ones only.Well i'll tell you to spread the myth that macedonians were greek & even in death its greek writing.The greeks don't want you to know that they have been ripping graveyrds for years being recent or even ancient ones & changing their names to greek ones.Greeks can run but they can't hide.A lot of their myths have been busted.

Even the dead arent spared hey?Whoever does those types of things is seriously fucked in the head....thats all i can say about that.

[Akzion]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Even after his death this so-called Persian agent was praised by the Hellenes, who wrote at the base of his statue that: Had you for Hellas been strong, as wise you were, The Macedonian had not conquered her.

This is from Plutarch's Demosthenes (30,5), so here's an accurate translation:
Είπερ ίσην ρώμην, γνώμη Δημόσθενες, είχες, ουποτ` αν Ελλήνων ήρξεν Άρης Μακεδών
If you had (physical) strength, Demosthenes, equal to your knowledge (understanding, intellect), never would have Hellenes be led by a Macedonian Ares (Mars).

[Soldier of Macedon]

Here is another.

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...osthenes*.html

"If thy strength had only been equal to thy purposes, Demosthenes,
Never would the Greeks have been ruled by a Macedonian Ares."

Amusing how you try to soften and twist it by using 'led' instead of 'ruled' or 'conquered', spin it however you want, it still spells the same - the Macedonian domination and conquest of Greece. Have you addressed your concerns with Loeb Classical Library yet?

[George S.]

Now the modern greeks are only too happy to appropriate anything macedonian.It's clear from what i have read that demosthenes hated the macedonian domination so much that he flew into a rage that was very often.He was hoping that alexander would be killed in the battle of chaeronea & when he found out he wasn't he flew in a fit of rage.