Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-05-2009, 06:07 PM   #1
Daskalot
Senior Member
 
Daskalot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In a Library
Posts: 4,345
Daskalot is on a distinguished road
Default Justinian the Great and General Belisarius

Isnt this strange?

What does a Sclavonic general do in the Byzantine Empire? Obviously he must have been a Roman citizen to become this, how did he manage this when he was just about to run down to the Balkans from the Pripet marshes to slaughter all of the native inhabitants of the southern Balkans...... strange is it not?

Page 479.


Source: A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology
By William Smith, 1880, page 479.
__________________
Macedonian Truth Organisation
Daskalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 08:02 AM   #2
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,270
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Slovak, I would like your opinion on this proposed etymology for Belisarius. Could a variant of the word (t)sar have been used prior to the 10th century in Slavic languages?

Wikipedia states:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belisarius#cite_note-0
Quote:
The hypothesis that he was of Romanized Slavic ancestry, on the grounds that his name is somewhat similar to the Slavic "Beli Tsar" ("White Prince"), has been rejected by contemporary historians, as the word tsar was first used in the 10th century, well after Belisarius' death. Whether the sar- particle nevertheless derives from "Caesar" (as does "Tsar"), or from the earlier etymological roots (sar is "king"/"prince"/"ruler" in various older Semitic languages) is not attested.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 09:18 AM   #3
Delodephius
Member
 
Delodephius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Petrovecz Baciensis, Res Publica Iazygia
Posts: 736
Delodephius is on a distinguished road
Default

I heard about the hypothesis that the word "car" [tsar] is older and did not come down to Slavonic from the Caesar or Kesar, that it is of an older IE origin and in fact it originates from the same root that forms a part of the very name Caesar. I think it meant "head", as in leader or ruler. In Sanskrit head is "śir", in English we have a word "sir", and in Slavonic "car"- Tzar. It also reminds of the Sanskrit word for the Sun - "sūrya" and in Slavonic "zora", as the Sun was the highest authority and deity in the ancient world it could be connected to the meaning of "emperor" or the highest of human authorities.

Similarly, it is today believe that the Slavonic word for king - kral, korol, kralj, krľ, etc. derives from the name of Charlemagne - Karl, in English Charles. But I think it could be of a much older origin deriving from something like the root *kar - "to rule", "to smite". There are no words for a ruler or king in any Slavic language that derive from the IE root *h₃reǵ- (Lat. regere, Gk. ὀρέγω (oregō), Eng. riht/right, Gm. reht/recht, ON rttr, Goth. raihts, Thrac. rhesus, Toch. rk/rk, Arm. arcvi/ardzvi;
*H₃rēǵ-(H₃n-) / "ruler, king": Skr. राजन् (rājan), Oscan regaturei, Lat. rēx, Gaul. rīx, Ir. rg/rgh, Welsh rhi, Av. raz, Pers. rahst, Alb. radh), unless borrowed, but I couldn't find anything on *kar, so I won't go any further on that.
__________________
अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
This is mine or (somebody) elses (is the way) narrow minded people count.
But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.
Delodephius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 06:49 PM   #4
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,270
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Thanks buddy, that's an interesting perspective.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 11:28 PM   #5
Pelister
Senior Member
 
Pelister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,742
Pelister is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Slovak, I would like your opinion on this proposed etymology for Belisarius. Could a variant of the word (t)sar have been used prior to the 10th century in Slavic languages?

Wikipedia states:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belisarius#cite_note-0
I don't like this explanation given on Wiki.

Given that the morphology and etymology of Caesar, Tsar and Sarius are so close, I would say there has to be a connection there. So it doesn't make much sense to say the term 'Tsar' first appeared in the 10th century. If Tsar is a variant of Caesar or even Sarius and it is very possible then the term has far deeper roots.
Pelister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 11:31 PM   #6
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,270
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I guess I was playing devil's advocate for a bit, but it always pays to look at both sides of the story, regardless of how baseless they can be. I like Slovak's little piece of information, it sounds credible.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 11:31 PM   #7
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,270
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Are there any attempts for a Latin etymology for this name?
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2009, 11:41 PM   #8
Pelister
Senior Member
 
Pelister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,742
Pelister is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
I guess I was playing devil's advocate for a bit, but it always pays to look at both sides of the story, regardless of how baseless they can be. I like Slovak's little piece of information, it sounds credible.
I agree, Thanks for that.

All possibilities need to come out. Its better for everyone that way.
Pelister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 07:21 AM   #9
Sarafot
Member
 
Sarafot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Celje/Виница
Posts: 616
Sarafot is on a distinguished road
Default

Probebly Duan Silni was first who was called CAR,Slovenians use CESAR for king or kralj?
__________________
Ние македонците не сме ни срби, ни бугари, туку просто Македонци. Ние ги симпатизираме и едните и другите, кој ќе не ослободи, нему ќе му речеме благодарам, но србите и бугарите нека не забораваат дека Македонија е само за Македонците.
- Борис Сарафов, 2 септември 1902
Sarafot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2009, 10:47 PM   #10
TrueMacedonian
Senior Member
 
TrueMacedonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,809
TrueMacedonian will become famous soon enough
Default A similarity I noticed between Alexander and Justinian


__________________
Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!
TrueMacedonian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bader, bederiana, belisarius, belitsar, fortress, justinian, macedonia, skopje, taor, tauresium, velizar


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump