Framework Agreement doesn't exist!

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  • Prolet
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2009
    • 5241

    #16
    Prolet,

    when you sign an agreement between parties, of any kind, do you need only one or two sides to the agreement?

    If this agreement is signed only as a deal among Macedonian political parties which got incorporated in the Constitution it's nothing else from the rest of regulatives, laws, decissions etc. made in the Parlament.

    According to you we signed an Peace Treaty with ourselfs? Macedonia vs. Macedonia? The President of Macedonia and the President of... ?
    Brate, The reality is we were attacked from Kosovo this is why we had a mrtva straza with them, i agree with you that its a bullshit scenario. A war was not declared, in the eyes of the west it was seen as a civilian conflict.

    We are still being fucked around with this treaty, we have a clown (Abdulahim Ademi) being the head of accord making sure that its implemented and we have the so called Vrabotuvanja po ramkovski dogovor. Its a disgrace
    МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

    Comment

    • Bratot
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 2855

      #17
      Do you think the reality or formality is more important?

      I'm afraid that in 50 years we will all celebrate the Framework agreement on a national level, if we don't clear up this issue. We can't allow to be brainwashed and to adopt perfidious terminology.

      Those who tend to keep in life the Framework agreement by attaching new annexes doesn't really care for a "Macedonian" state.

      The fact it self, beside the whole damage, that ONA wasn't signatory leaves open threat, I hope you can figure it out how.
      The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

      Comment

      • Prolet
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 5241

        #18
        Bratot, I agree with you completley, we are constantly being blackmailed with this agreement which does nothing for us.
        МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

        Comment

        • George S.
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2009
          • 10116

          #19
          So if ONA is not a signatory the they can do what they want.They may ressurect another civil war if they don't think their getting their just rights?
          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
          GOTSE DELCEV

          Comment

          • Pelister
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 2742

            #20
            A country does not have to declare a state of war for there to be a war happening, Bratot.

            This idea that there was no war, is just plain wrong.

            Kosovo was not a nation State and was not recognised as such at that time. I don't think that an old legal rule of the Law of Nations applies here.

            It doesn't really matter whether they were Albanians from Kosovo or Albanian from Macedonia, or a mixture of both - the fact is there was a war between Albanian insurgent guerilla's and Maceodnian forces, and the Albanians won. The Macedonians accepted Albanian terms - and those terms can only be seen as a 'step' or a 'phase' in the final goal of breaking this region away from the Macedonian State.

            Originally posted by Bratot
            Those Constitutional changes were already agreed even before the armed conflict started in the Coalition Agreement between VMRO-DPMNE and DPA.
            I find that hard to believe. This is sounding more and more like a conspiracy theory. I would be interested to see the evidence that the peace terms that were signed were already dreamed up and a part of party policy before the war.
            Last edited by Pelister; 09-01-2010, 09:53 PM.

            Comment

            • Bratot
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 2855

              #21
              Originally posted by Pelister View Post
              A country does not have to declare a state of war for there to be a war happening, Bratot.

              This idea that there was no war, is just plain wrong.
              You really don't have to discuss with me on this matter, that's how formally things stands and how the qualifications of what happened will be writen in history.

              I didn't said there was no war, it's not about an idea, it's about formal procedure.

              The reason why there was no declaration of State of War is because it allows legimity to use the full army capacity and to identify the agressor and the demands.
              That's why the State of War was sabbotaged by Trajkovski & Crvenkovski.

              That's why we were several times warned by the International Community of "using excessive force" in handling the ONA groups and we were blocked in our offansive.
              That's why the terrorists were transformed into "human rights fighters".


              Kosovo was not a nation State and was not recognised as such at that time. I don't think that an old legal rule of the Law of Nations applies here.
              Kosovo was part of foreign country and it was under NATO adminstration.

              The terrorist groups also qualify for declaring State of War. A state of war was declared even in Poland under the communist regime in order to use the army against the demonstrants.

              The non-state or terrorist organisations may claim to or be described as "declaring war" when engaging in violent acts.

              It doesn't really matter whether they were Albanians from Kosovo or Albanian from Macedonia, or a mixture of both - the fact is there was a war between Albanian insurgent guerilla's and Maceodnian forces, and the Albanians won. The Macedonians accepted Albanian terms - and those terms can only be seen as a 'step' or a 'phase' in the final goal of breaking this region away from the Macedonian State.
              I don't know if you are just trying to piss me off with your ignorance but I wont repeat for hundred times for you to understand.




              I find that hard to believe. This is sounding more and more like a conspiracy theory. I would be interested to see the evidence that the peace terms that were signed were already dreamed up and a part of party policy before the war.
              You have Georgievski statement just after the signing of the FA and also the procedures that his government already started.
              A commission for the territorial division was formed before 2001 and you have other stenographical records of the Parlamentary sessions when this was discussed.
              Or maybe you want me to jump in the Parlament and scan the original papers?
              The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

              Comment

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