Who are the Slavs? - Citations and Sources

[slovenec zrinski]

So u believe that the Poles are the ones that have preserved the "ethnos" from the slavic speakers of the first few hundred years after christ? In what way? Do they still worship Triglav_Svantevit? Or do they have the highest percentage of the so called "slav marker" in their DNA? Do they speak the same unchanged language as they did back in the days? Do they still dwell in the same sort of hamlets as they did back then? What have they preserved from that time that makes them eligable for your award of best slavs in the class?

I am being honest when I say that I still do not really get what u mean by this.

[Voltron]

[QUOTE]

So u believe that the Poles are the ones that have preserved the "ethnos" from the slavic speakers of the first few hundred years after christ?

Yes

In what way?

You mentioned most of the reasons yourself except for religion for obvious reasons (As if I worship Zeus). Everything else is spot on. Look at the architecture in Poland, the language, physical characterisics of the people. I firmly believe that Poland best represents all of these.

I am being honest when I say that I still do not really get what u mean by this.

So if I say Austria represents the best of the Germanic Nations would you be confused ?

[slovenec zrinski]

If u are ironic about about Austrians then yes....probably half of the Autrians are germanified "Alpine Slavs"/Karantanians/Slovenians...

I dont think the architecture of Poland is a reflection of the buildings they lived in 600 after Christ but I might be wrong. I will have to look into that some more. Some years ago I was in Rujana/Rugen in Germany and saw the remains and the reconstructions at Kap Arkona. They did not look like Polish or any other "slavic" architecture of today At least not to my eye....

I still dont understand how u can come to your conclusions about the Poles and I really should since I am half "germanic" and half "slavic" lol

[Voltron]

I dont think the architecture of Poland is a reflection of the buildings they lived in 600 after Christ but I might be wrong. I will have to look into that some more. Some years ago I was in Rujana/Rugen in Germany and saw the remains and the reconstructions at Kap Arkona. They did not look like Polish or any other "slavic" architecture of today At least not to my eye....

Would you consider those wooden churches in Poland Slavic architecture ? Very unique with the sloping roofs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wooden_Churches_of_Southern_Little_Poland

This link below also has a variety of Slavic architecture. Stunning btw.

http://slavic-unity.com/viewtopic.ph...t=331&start=15

I still dont understand how u can come to your conclusions about the Poles and I really should since I am half "germanic" and half "slavic" lol

Well that shouldnt be a problem since most Slovenes are Germanisized anyway. J/K. But to be honest, I have a bias towards Poland. They have a great history and any country to come up with the winged Hussar and save Europe from the Turks earn a special place in my book.
And before anybody says anything, yes, I know the hussar originally is Serbian, but the Poles refined it in a way that is only theirs.

[slovenec zrinski]

Do yourself a little, little favour and read the text of the wikipedia-article and not just look at the pic...in the text we find gems like:

"Built using the horizontal log technique, common in eastern and northern Europe since the Middle Ages...""

gothic, rococo and baroque influences....

"The form of these Roman Catholic churches is deeply influenced by the Greco-Catholic and Orthodox presence in the region. Some display Greek cross plans and onion domes, but the most interesting of the churches combine these features with the Roman forms with elongated naves and steeples."

I dont see these churches as anything to do with the "slavs" some hundreds years after Christ...

And besides...I dont know for sure so dont take it as a truth (which I know u wouldnt do anyway) but I believe many of these churches are in fact not polish but ruthenian/lemko/rusyn...

I dont understand your rascism towards slovenians either....do u mean that we speak german in Slovenia?
I also dont like the fact that the autrogermans and the germans have so to say stolen the cultural traits of the alps and made it out like it is their culture and only borrowed by the other peoples of the region when it is in fact an alpine culture that is common for many different peoples...french,raetoromance,austrogerman,german, czech,slovenian,italian and even slovakian and croat. The polkadance for example that the germans have made into a must on every octoberfest is in fact a czech dance. And the oompa oompa orchestras were based on the , mostly, czech military bands of the Austrohungarian empire....
But if u want to make it all german culture in the alps you are very welcome...but also very wrong....

[Voltron]

Yes, i read that part in wiki. Those are "influences" that doesnt mean Slavs did not have any uniqueness to their buildings. All cultures are influenced in one way or another that doesnt mean its not unique or distinct. Ottoman mosques were influenced by Byzantine churches but they are still Ottoman. We dont have that type of church architecture here in Greece. I also dont see those types in Germany either espescially such as those wooden Polish churches with the steep roofs.



Dont be silly, im not racist against Slovenes. I just commented how they are more Germanised than the rest of the Slavic countries. Do you not agree ?

[slovenec zrinski]

I read a little about it and i see that Poles and Lemkos built these wooden churches...but so did the norwegians and swedes as well ))

[slovenec zrinski]

http://www.pictureninja.com/pages/norway/image-wooden-church.htm

Norwegian wooden church

[slovenec zrinski]

On a side note..they are actually very beautiful churches all of them. I read about the lemko ones a few years ago when I was into their folk music

[Voltron]

Nice pic, yes that is certainly similar. Interesting.
Who knows, maybe the Slavs made it to Norway

[Voltron]

This one is a really nice one too

[slovenec zrinski]

Omg...that was a nice one

My take on it is that it was a building style common to northern europe at that time regardless of ethnicity. We had a lot in sweden as well but most are gone for different reasons...

[Soldier of Macedon]

Ok, what nation today do you think best represents the Slavic Nation ?

You have demonstrated nothing thus far that would suggest the Poles are 'pure Slavs', whatever that is supposed to mean. Your examples relating to architecture remain weak and inconclusive, as does your overall argument concerning this topic.

Anthropologically speaking the Poles best represents themselves as a Slav ethnos in all capacities.

How?

Several specific areas just like in Tetovo today.

It is not the same. In Macedonia they are mainly concentrated along the Albanian and Kosovo frontiers, not deep into the heartland. In Greece, they were found in nearly all corners, including some islands. Your effort to diminish the truth with regard to this matter is getting you nowhere. Do yourself a favour and open a book.

ROM has also high numbers of minorities including Gypsies and Albanians not to mention Vlachs. What are we supposed to say a hundred years from now ? Apply the same logic to Macedonia.

The same thing we would have said 100 years ago. In Macedonia there is a Macedonian majority and a number of minorities. We certainly won't be claiming Roma and Albanians as our 'ethnic' Macedonian forefathers the way you claim Vlachs and Albanians as your 'ethnic' Greek forefathers.

Its not pretending, and entirely possible. I can change from an American to a Greek just by going on a plane and depending where I land to.

That says as much about the individual in question as it does about the fluid American (and Greek, for that matter) identity, which is not based on a common ancestral and ethno-linguistic heritage. Go to Macedonia or Croatia and see if you can Clark Kent your way into their identities like you would in Greece.

What is genuine in the Balkans when our history comes from Multi-faceted empires ? Its romanticism at best.

A simple example is the native language used among family and friends by your ancestors, as opposed to the one used in Patriarchist schools and churches, or the urban marketplace.

I also agree it is unfair to impede on other people but if those other people have a country of their own then they should move to it if they cant conform.

What if those people actually fought to establish that state which you now call your 'own', like the Albanians - don't they have the right to retain and further develop their own language and culture, with the support of the state which they helped create? What about indigenous Macedonians that were already in those regions before Greece expanded its borders, don't they have the same right? If there is good governance and policies to ensure the preservation of both the standard official language and of minority languages on a regional level, what is the problem?

I can understand the different socio political conditions but why is Slavic terminology so popular ? Espescially in an area within the Byzantium empire ?

Because, despite the initial turmoil, the majority of Paleo-Balkan populations appear to have accepted the new arrangement over Roman rule without much difficulty. That could only be the result of pre-existing commonalities with the invaders.

[Mygdon]

Dont be silly, im not racist against Slovenes. I just commented how they are more Germanised than the rest of the Slavic countries. Do you not agree ?

judging by their folk music, maybe
MUSICA ESLOVENA - Acordeón en Eslovenia - EL ACORDEON EN EL MUNDO - YouTube

[slovenec zrinski]

Unfortunately I cannot watch youtube videos here at work but if it is a polka then I have already explained that that is originally a czech dance. regardless of what they play or dance or whatever it is on the video I am sure it is what I call alpine culture. U see, contrary to your belief, and many Macedonians here on this forum as I have understood, I see the cultures of the alps in a different light than u. I see it as an alpine culture because that is what it is. Every ethnicity has made its mark on it and it is not exclusive to anyone. The most famous "german" lol melody, Beer Barrel Polka/Rosamunde for example, is actually a czech tune written by Jaromir Vejvoda and its original title was Modřanska Polka. But...hmmm...pretty much like the in the spirit of the greeks, the germans have "stolen" it and made it theirs and it has become an integrated part of german culture.
And here is a quote from wiki about the song:
"A former Foreign Minister of Germany Hans-Dietrich Genscher even made a bet that it was a German song. He lost."