Albanians in Greece

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

They were Athenians. Plain and simple.
They were a member of a Hellenic civilisation.
There was no nation called Greece, there was no attempt to lead all these "States" by one leader until that right was won by war .... by a Macedonian I might add.

I know it sounds offensive. But I see a very simplistic view of ancient races being afforded to modern Greeks and ancient Hellenic city states.

Not offended at all Risto.
The way I see it, the Greeks have been refered to, or refered to themselves as various different names ver the ages.
Hellenes, Achaeans,Argives, Greeks , Romaioi etc, its all the same to me.
You can call a cat a dog, ass, bird or horse, at the end of the day its still a cat...

Anyways, 'Athenian' was never an ethnic indicator, but a geographical one.
Ancient Athenians in my opinion were Greek/Hellenes(or whatever name you would like to insert).

There was no nation called Greece, there was no attempt to lead all these "States" by one leader until that right was won by war .... by a Macedonian I might add.

Just to be historically accurate Risto my good man, I must say that there were many attempts at this.
What do you think the Greeks were doing from trojan war times, until the time of Phillip and Alexander!? lol
Your boy was the only one who made a succesfull attempt....

One more question if I may Risto, just out of curiosity

But I see a very simplistic view of ancient races being afforded to modern Greeks and ancient Hellenic city states.

Are you skeptical only about the Greeks, or do you feel the same about other modern people as well?
For example, do you believe Italians being afforded to the ancient Romans has been over-simplified, or Swedes/Finns to Vikings, or even Macedonians to todays Macedonians?

[Risto the Great]

Ha ha ... I will tell you about the phrase "my good man" when we share a beer one day my friend.

Yes, I see all modern nations claiming exact ancestry and links as being "simplistic" and "optimistic".

You mentioned Philip with a successful attempt. It was done militarily. The other attempts failed because each State had their own interests. A bit like USA vs Canada if you like.

[Spartan]

A bit like USA vs Canada if you like.

The city states werent that friendly to each other.
They constantly fought and killed each other in wars for the better part of a 1000 yr period, to the point were expansion was near impossible.

If I ever come to Oz, we will have that beer my friend.
Sounds like a good story....

[Blue Juice]

Risoto,
Was Philip trying to unify all the Hellenic States to make them Macedonian or Greeks?

[King Makedon]

My opinion is that Philip tried to vipe out the greeks and burn every greek city to the ground which oposed his majesties army of the allmighty sons of the Sun God himself. It was Alexander who convinced him to let the greeks alive,

[Blue Juice]

King Makedon,
Your comrade Risto just mentioned that there were no Greeks. Now your telling me that Philip wanted to destroy all the Greek cities.
Please make up your minds if the Greeks were there or not.

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by Blue Juice

Risoto,
Was Philip trying to unify all the Hellenic States to make them Macedonian or Greeks?

Hi Blew,
since you can't spell "risotto" ... I will assume it was a typo written above. It could have been so funny.

But since you were eager to ask a question, I feel like helping you in your quest for knowledge.

Given that Philip was the leader of the League of Corinth formed after the Macedonians decimated the various Hellenes in the battle of Chaeronea, and Macedonia was not a member of this League, I would suggest that unification was the furthest thing from his mind. It was to RULE them. His son (Uncle) Alexander spread this methodology even further afar ... even adopting Persian customs amongst others along the way.

Modern Greeks don't like hearing this, as a consequence they use the following mantra:

If you can't beat the Macedonians
Be the Macedonians


Let me know how else I can help you.

[Blue Juice]

Thanks for that Risto,
Did the the league of Corinth comprise of ethnic Greeks or a group of people who self identified as such?

Ps.
Don't shout, lower case is fine.

[Risto the Great]

No Bluey,
you know very well there was no such thing as "Greeks" back then.
Why would they want to associate themselves with a Southern Italian tribe called Graecoi?

[Blue Juice]

The Graecoi were part of Magna Graecia.
There are people in the Calabria region of Italia that still speak a dialect of Greek.