Kolokotronis the Albanian

[Carlin]

Originally Posted by Amphipolis

It's mostly in the sense of "peasant" (actually the opposite of “tsopelos”, a city dweller). Yet, what the author misses is that the term is not exactly affectionate, but also slightly satirical. The same satirical, condescending term was later used for "Vlachoepanastasi" (Vlach uprising) an 1834 uprising that did not involve any Vlachs.

Could it be possible that it simply means and refers to Vlach-speakers?

In what sense is the phrase "βλαχικην διαλεκτον του/Vlach dialect" and the term "ο Βλαχος/the Vlach" being used below?

Μ. Οικονομου, Ιστορικα-Ελληνικη σειρα, τομος 14, Αθηνα 1957, σ.143: ''Και παλιν ο Κολοκοτρωνης (ο Βλαχος ή κλεφτης, οπως τον ονομαζαν οι κοτσαμπασηδες), ο συκοφαντηθεις και ετι συκοφαντουμενος [...] με τη δημωδη βλαχικην διαλεκτον του και τας αφελεις παροιμιας και παραβολας του...''

Source: Γιωργης Εξαρχος - ''Οι Ελληνοβλαχοι Αρμανοι'' ("The Hellenovlahoi Armanoi")
http://www.politeianet.gr/books/9789...s-tomos-204956

[Carlin]

Screenshot - for fair use.


Source: Ο Γιωργης Εξαρχος στο βιβλιο του ''Οι Ελληνοβλαχοι Αρμανοι''.

[Carlin]

The source here is: Sokratis Liakos, "The origins of the Armonians (Vlachs)" - pages 112 and page 113.

According to S. Liakos:
- Kolokotronis was a Vlach-speaking Arvanito-Vlach.
- The ancestral homeland of his family was Arvanito-Vlach land, and not Arvanite.
- In the Peloponnese, around the time of the Greek revolution (first half of the 19th century), there were both Vlach traders and Vlach shepherds.
- Across the entire Peloponnese the shepherds were Bilingual Vlachs (Diglwssoi Graikoblaxoi), but not monolingual Greek-speakers.

Basic translation of some parts:

"Pouqeville and Cousinery inform us (in 1828), that in the Peloponnese there were Vlach traders and Vlach nomadic shepherds. And Cousinery certifies us that even across Peloponnese the nomadic shepherds were bilingual Greko-Vlachs, but not monolingual Greek-speakers. This further affirm what we already know about Kolokotronis and the ancestral homeland of his family Tsergini. As Philemon writes, the 'Old Man of Morea' had extensive families in the provinces .... Tertsetis added that Kolokotronis knew and spoke to the Vlach shepherds in the "entopious" language, which means he was not a Greek-speaker, especially since Phrantzis says the people of the Peloponnese called him king of the Vlachs. And he also said in his memoirs that Tsergini (from the homeland they originated from) were nomadic shepherds .... The Tsergini homeland was Arvanitovlach and not Arvanite."

[Carlin]

The source --> Sokratis Liakos, "The origins of the Armonians (Vlachs)" - pages 166 and page 167:

The same proportion of course was among the population of the Peloponnese, where as Venetian governors wrote the pastoralists were exclusively Arvanites. In fact most of them were Farsaliotes (= Arvanitovlachs) and even from the ancestral Ziarkanon (or Siarganaion, or Tserginaion, hence the Kolokotronaioi) that suffered tremendous damage during the revolution of 1821, as e.g. their bravery Prountziou from which as recounted by Fotakos killed by fighting and eighty warriors. An old Farsaliatiko couplet that says: Maras lji Sarganjots s’ dussira Mureaua tots, i.e. translation: Unfortunate are Sarganaioi, all perished in the Morea.

[Carlin]

ΜΙΧΑΛΗΣ Ζ. ΠΛΙΤΣΗΣ "ΒΛΑΧΙΚΗ ΓΛΩΣΣΑ ΚΑΙ ΑΡΧΑΙΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΙ ΔΙΑΛΕΚΤΟΙ"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdWMtI7WawQ

M. Plitsis - "Aromanian language and ancient Greek dialects"

Start watching at 0:55 of the linked youtube video -- M. Plitsis calls Kolokotronis a Vlach.

[PS: Apologies, but the video is in Greek. It would be nice to have full/accurate translations.]

[Carlin]

Why would Theodoros (of Geneos) Kolokotronis have this information at all?

"I mention Theodoros (of Geneos) Kolokotronis’ information that Arvanito-Aromanian women in Roumeli (Central Greece) composed (matching Greek and Aromanian languages) heroic songs, which all people of that time knew and sang."

http://vlahofonoi.blogspot.ca/2013/1...ians-with.html

[Carlin]

Page 495:

For Kolokotronis there are two additional anecdotes: Vlach songs, as sung by Arvanitovlach G. Ntikas, born in 1910 in Hrupista (now Argos Orestikon) Macedonia, by whoever heard and learned from the Vlach-speaking residents of the village Koutsi Argolida (recorded in 1995).

(I will share and post these two songs in due time, from the same book.)

Source: ΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΟΒΛΑΧΟΙ (ΑΡΜΑΝΟΙ) (ΔΕΥΤΕΡΟΣ ΤΟΜΟΣ).

http://www.politeianet.gr/books/9789...s-tomos-104665

For fair use



Page 495

[Carlin]

RE - Page 495:

For Kolokotronis there are two additional anecdotes: Vlach songs, as sung by Arvanitovlach G. Ntikas, born in 1910 in Hrupista (now Argos Orestikon) Macedonia, by whoever heard and learned from the Vlach-speaking residents of the village Koutsi Argolida (recorded in 1995).

Source: ΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΟΒΛΑΧΟΙ (ΑΡΜΑΝΟΙ) (ΔΕΥΤΕΡΟΣ ΤΟΜΟΣ).

As promised, here are the scans of two Vlach songs. Pages 495 to 498 (namely 496 and 497, song appears in Vlach language followed by Greek).

[Amphipolis]

There's nothing wrong with amateur historians (George Exarchos studied and teaches Economics) but judging by the structure of his text, the content and certainty of his conclusions and some hilarious phrases (“we had already proved that in our previous book, but this is an additional proof”) in the small parts of the pages I can see, what can I say? Jesus Christ we've seen worst.

Last week it was Bouboulina planning to convert and marry a Turkish general. This time (if I understand correctly) Kolokotronis has an unknown Vlach (?) sister and another unknown brother Dimitri?

And wait… this is a Vlach song someone heard in Argolis where there are no Vlachs at all? And this someone is an amateur singer with a name that doesn’t produce Google results? That’s really a great proof.

And why is this in the defamatory thread Kolokotronis the Albanian? Why don’t we start Kolokotronis the Vlach admiral?

[tchaiku]

Vlachs and Greeks did coexist in historical documents even in medieval ones.