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Old 10-26-2010, 07:10 AM   #251
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One strange thing I find with the MTO is it has some otherwise extremely intelligent people but let themselves get bogged down on some minor point which to them its as if it almost means the world and cannot seem to get past it or check their own version of reality.

Komita you are very sadly mistaken. The Russians then Soviets then Russians have NOT been friends of the Macedonians. Period. Fact. Get over it. I donít have any articles at hand but recall my disgust in reading articles in the past where both government and church have call Kiril and Metodia two nice GREEK priests who came to Russia to spread the Christian faith and an alphabet to the Russians and other Slavs.

The church as other churches ie catholic protestant ect has had strong ties with government and politics sometimes even outdoing government both of which realised that faith is a powerful motivator when all faiths scare a person witless with stories of hell and that the only way to escape a fate worse than death is to be faithful to the church yielding them sway over the minds of the masses and hence yield them great power. Havenít kings claimed to have a god given right to rule.

In the context of Russiaís aims at reaching the Mediterranean they supported the Serbs who intern support the Greeks in denying Macedonians exist. It is the foundation of the north to south Slav migration myth. We have not accepted subjugation. The Macedonian masses have been beaten and kicked to the ground and called all sorts of things South Serbs Bulgarians ect in next to the Jews the longest attempt to exterminate a people. It has little to do with faith and a lot to do with politics power and empire.

The SOC cannot claim dominion over MOC anymore than a daughter can claim to have born her mother. Their claim to power is during the disintegration of Macedonia and Serbian dominance SOC seized power but like in any soap opera the daughter cannot claim to have started the family business before she was born. A priest gets authority from his superiors. The orthodox faith spread northwards not southwards but for politics the Macedonians were called the new Slavs kid in the Balkan block supposedly migrating from Russia. In order to reconcile this stupidity the Greek claims were backed that the original Macedonians who were Greek brought the faith northwards and the new Slavic Macedonians therefore could not be the originators of the faith and hence must be under some other church. It has all to do with politics and power and nothing to do with faith. No Macedonian church should bow down to any other church for no other church can be older unless ofcourse you accept the original Macedonians are gone and we are the new mob who rather than calling themselves by the name of some region in Russia decided or got confused and started calling ourselves Macedonians. Everything boils down to the one same old question and nothing more.

A simple answer to SOC or ROC or any other church for that matter we do not need your authority to existÖaccept me as I am or go away.

Komita from what I can gather by your posts your views are very similar to SDSM and some Macedonians. You will relish in the victory when it happens and it will but secretly you will know your own part.

Tito and Yugoslavia became one of the founding members of the non-aligned movement hence anti usa pro Russia or vise versa depending which side of the bed he got out of in the morning.

Pelister.Post073...What an excellent find. I have not kept records of everything I have heard I the past and therefore could not cite examples but it is what I have been saying in many post that we really have not moved past West Roman Empire vs. East Roman Empire. When Constantinople was under attack Rome demanded all of the east bow down to them and surrender before they would consider helping fellow Christians. The rest is history.
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Old 10-26-2010, 07:18 AM   #252
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OM, agree on all points.
The church has always been tied with politics .
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Old 10-26-2010, 07:22 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelister View Post
Here is a tyically Catholic point of view.

The article is interesting because it mentions the 'Church of the Macedonians'.




To the Editor of the Royal Cornwall Gazette . LUTHER.
Royal Cornwall Gazette, Falmouth Packet & Plymouth Journal (Truro, England), Saturday, April 05, 1823; Issue 1032. 19th Century British Library Newspapers: Part II
This "Church of the Macedonians" he is referring to is the christian sect lead by Macedonius I of Constantinople. His followers were referred to as "Macedonians". This does not denote ethnicity but rather the sect followers of Macedonius.
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Old 10-26-2010, 08:33 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
This "Church of the Macedonians" he is referring to is the christian sect lead by Macedonius I of Constantinople. His followers were referred to as "Macedonians". This does not denote ethnicity but rather the sect followers of Macedonius.
You could be right, although the chronology of events would be important in this case. I didn't read the source that way.

To me he was expressing the Patriarchates (Council of Constantinople) abolishment of the Ohrid Archbishopric in 1789 (or whenever it was exactly).
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Old 10-28-2010, 02:41 PM   #255
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Exclamation MOC and the bishops who do not know their history!

Macedonian bishops are guiding with the thought that people do not know their history and
history of the struggle of its clergy and believers, trampling on the pride of the Macedonian people they are receiving gifts and making contracts with major deniers of the Macedonians and the Macedonian Orthodox Church.

The struggle for an independent church was long, namely in 1944 in the village Vranovci was formed the Initiative Board for organizing the Macedonian Orthodox Church.
In March 1945 in Skopje is held the first National Church Council, on which the resolution was passed to restore Archbishopric of Ohrid as Macedonian Orthodox Church. This decision was submitted to The Synod of the SOC, since before the war dioceses in the area of Macedonia were under the United Orthodox Church of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, later – Serbian Orthodox Church.


This decision is not approved by Serbian bishops and they still treated MPC as part of their church, until July 17, 1967 in Ohrid, where convened the Third National Church Assembly, in formal session in the church of Saint Clement of Ohrid, Macedonian Orthodox Church was proclaimed autocephalous. The act of proclamation of the autocephalous Macedonian Orthodox Church was accomplished at the Holy Liturgy held in the church of St. Clement Ohrid on July 19, 1967, by the Holy Synod of the MOC. Exactly 200 years after its abolition by Turkey.

The denial by SOC continues until today, but that denial certainly has found support from some of "Macedonian bishops”.
On the Symposium "Ohrid evangelical activity of Nikolaj Velimirovic" in Shabac, Serbia, which was held in 2008 in which for the Prespa-pelagonic diocese, once responsible Bishop was Bishop St. Nikolaj of Ohrid and Bitola, was awarded with a medal by Bishop of Shabac Mr. Lavrentij and handed to the current authorized bishop prespa-pelagonian metropolitan and Australian and New Zealand administrator Mr. Petar.
On that occasion also with a medal was awarded for Municipality of Bitola, handed to the President of the Council of Municipality Bitola, Ms. Liliana Kuzmanovska.

Similarly, the "symposium was held in a warm friendly and fraternal atmosphere."

All this would be good if there is no history and what Nikolai Velimirovic
together with the Serbian bishop in America, Bishop Dionysius, have said about the Macedonian people in their letters.

Namely, the first letter registered under D.Prot.Nr.6 dated January 16, 1952 where Bishop Dionysius refers to the Patriarch Vikentie:

"... the Synod of the Serbian Orthodox Church is obliged not to recognize the MOC and the Initiative Board because they are invented - Macedonian nation, Macedonian alphabet, Macedonian literature, to definately seal the separation of the SOC and the creation of an independent Orthodox Church MOC that would be part of those fictional works .. "

The second letter is from Nikolai Velimirovic, January 5, 1952 stating:

"More difficult is the case with the recognition of the Macedonian nation, that can be done only by a overcloud brain, or a Serbian degenerate or political manipulator, sold soul, traitor of the Serbian people.
When there is no Macedonian nation, there is no Macedonian alphabet, nor Macedonian literature or Macedonian language which is simply a Serbian text of St. Sava dialect of Serbian people "



These quotes are taken from the book "Macedonian Orthodox clergy in the struggle for national and religious freedom" by D. Ilievski and from the book "Historical-legal aspects of relations between Serbian Orthodox Church and Macedonian Orthodox Church” by Miodrag Peric.

History is witness that Dr. Peric from a university professor, was ignored by all and he was “sent” to teach in primary school, and then he ends fixed in invalid chair. That is the fate of all who fought for justice and freedom.
And what is the humanity of the Macedonian bishops and politicians receiving awards who bear the name of the “man” that denied Macedonians? What is their history and their destiny?


http://macedonianspark.com/news/comm...-07-32?lang=en
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Old 10-28-2010, 04:46 PM   #256
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Who cares what the serbs think do we need their approval to live & breathe.The macedonian church was a mother church to many churches.If they are going to behave ridiculously well we deseve the neighbours we get.
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Old 10-28-2010, 04:49 PM   #257
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Quote:
"... the Synod of the Serbian Orthodox Church is obliged not to recognize the MOC and the Initiative Board because they are invented - Macedonian nation, Macedonian alphabet, Macedonian literature, to definately seal the separation of the SOC and the creation of an independent Orthodox Church MOC that would be part of those fictional works .. "
And Petar actively wanted to join with the SOC.
It can be understood there is only one Macedonian church in Australia .... the one not under Petar.
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Old 10-28-2010, 04:58 PM   #258
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Can we have our member Komita comment on this.
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:09 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George S. View Post
Who cares what the serbs think do we need their approval to live & breathe.The macedonian church was a mother church to many churches.If they are going to behave ridiculously well we deseve the neighbours we get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
And Petar actively wanted to join with the SOC.
It can be understood there is only one Macedonian church in Australia .... the one not under Petar.
We are not discussing about any approval, we need to clean our back yard from Serbian agents.

It is hard to believe the name of Petar is a coincidence and unfortunatelly, we have to teach each other history, our own, because we still don't know good enough our enemies.
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Old 10-28-2010, 08:13 PM   #260
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There is no need for recognition of any other church for the Macedonian church to exist. We donít recognise you we donít care.
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