Russia, Ukraine and the West

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  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    just breaking news the seteratists are taking bits of the aeroplane fuselage.
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • Vangelovski
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 8531

      The post-crash response has been a larger disaster than the original shooting down of the plane itself. This could only happen in Eastern Europe and I imagine Macedonia would have fared just as badly:

      http://www.smh.com.au/world/mh17-cra...723-zvv9x.html
      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

      Comment

      • Phoenix
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2008
        • 4671

        Originally posted by George S. View Post
        just breaking news the seteratists are taking bits of the aeroplane fuselage.
        GS,

        For a possibly more informed and possibly less biased view, please consider...

        Comment

        • Bill77
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2009
          • 4545

          Whistleblower: U.S. Satellite Images Show Ukrainian Troops Shooting Down MH17
          Source tells award winning reporter Washington lying about responsibility for tragedy

          Award winning former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry has been told by an intelligence source that the United States is in possession of satellite imagery which shows that Ukrainian troops were responsible for the shoot down of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17. In the absence of any proper investigation, media rhetoric over the last few days …





          U.S. PREPARES TO BLAME MH17 SHOOT DOWN ON UKRAINIAN ARMY “DEFECTOR”
          In an attempt to explain away the existence of evidence which shows Ukrainian troops firing the missile that brought down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, Washington may be preparing to fix the intelligence by pinning the blame on a “defector” in order to absolve Kiev.

          The #1 Independent news service in the world, battling globalism and promoting a pro-human future worldwide. Infowars is Tomorrow's News Today.
          http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

          Comment

          • Volokin
            Member
            • Apr 2014
            • 278

            Question:
            Why would the Ukrainian Army have a BUK Missile System in the area when the rebels have no air force?

            I will always question the collective media's mainstream point of view, especially in situations like this, but really, in this case, it does appear to be as it is generally reported, that the Russian backed rebels are responsible.

            Comment

            • Bill77
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2009
              • 4545

              Originally posted by Volokin View Post
              Question:
              Why would the Ukrainian Army have a BUK Missile System in the area when the rebels have no air force?
              I suppose to shoot down a passenger plane and pin it on the Russians and people will say "why would the Ukrainian Army have a BUK Missile System in the are when the rebels have no Air Force?"
              http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

              Comment

              • Volokin
                Member
                • Apr 2014
                • 278

                Ukraine was already winning the media war, the west was on their side. Why was it necessary to risk such an action just to frame the opposition?

                People in this situation tend to go radically to one side or the other in this situation and conspiracy theories fly around. You have to look at hard evidence to tell the truth, and let's face it, there is none.

                Other forms of evidence points clearly towards the rebels, though.

                Now of course the west want's it to be Russian's who did it, but it doesn't make it incorrect purely on that basis.

                Comment

                • Volokin
                  Member
                  • Apr 2014
                  • 278

                  By the way, this is brilliant stuff, need someone like him in Macedonia.

                  Oleg Tyagnybok in Verkhovna Rada [English Subtitles], Ukraine, 12/03/2013 - YouTube

                  Comment

                  • Phoenix
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 4671

                    Originally posted by Volokin View Post
                    Question:
                    Why would the Ukrainian Army have a BUK Missile System in the area when the rebels have no air force?

                    I will always question the collective media's mainstream point of view, especially in situations like this, but really, in this case, it does appear to be as it is generally reported, that the Russian backed rebels are responsible.
                    It's still just speculation that a BUK system was used in the downing of MH17.

                    The BUK is also used against drones, do the rebels have drones or were the Russian's flying drones across the border?

                    Were the Ukrainian's beefing up their defences against a future, full scale Russian invasion?

                    Comment

                    • George S.
                      Senior Member
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 10116

                      thats right about the ukrjnians,But the commander of the seoeratists said they got a buk missile system from Russia,,There is a speculation that a Russian might have fired the system.
                      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                      GOTSE DELCEV

                      Comment

                      • Redsun
                        Member
                        • Jul 2013
                        • 409

                        Volokin, thanks for the upload that was one powerful speech.

                        Comment

                        • Redsun
                          Member
                          • Jul 2013
                          • 409

                          MINA 27/08/14
                          A letter sent by a prominent Dutch Professor to Russian president Vladimir Putin has attracted much media attention in Europe. The letter was written by Professor Cees Hamelink and signed by dozens of Dutch intellectuals and professors. Below is the letter in its entirety.

                          Dear Mr. President Putin,

                          Please accept our apologies on behalf of a great many people here in the Netherlands for our Government and our Media. The facts concerning MH17 are twisted to defame you and your country.

                          We are powerless onlookers, as we witness how the Western Nations, led by the United States, accuse Russia of crimes they commit themselves more than anybody else. We reject the double standards that are used for Russia and the West. In our societies, sufficient evidence is required for a conviction. The way you and your Nation are convicted for 'crimes' without evidence, is ruthless and despicable.

                          You have saved us from a conflict in Syria that could have escalated into a World War. The mass killing of innocent Syrian civilians through gassing by ‘Al-*‐Qaeda’ terrorists, trained and armed by the US and paid for by Saudi Arabia, was blamed on Assad. In doing so, the West hoped public opinion would turn against Assad, paving the way for an attack on Syria.

                          Not long after this, Western forces have built up, trained and armed an ‘opposition’ in the Ukraine, to prepare a coup against the legitimate Government in Kiev. The putschists taking over were quickly recognized by Western Governments. They were provided with loans from our tax money to prop their new Government up.

                          The people of the Crimea did not agree with this and showed this with peaceful demonstrations. Anonymous snipers and violence by Ukrainian troops turned these demonstrations into demands for independence from Kiev. Whether you support these separatist movements is immaterial, considering the blatant Imperialism of the West.

                          Russia is wrongly accused, without evidence or investigation, of delivering the weapons systems that allegedly brought down MH17. For this reason Western Governments claim they have a right to economically pressure Russia.

                          We, awake citizens of the West, who see the lies and machinations of our Governments, wish to offer you our apologies for what is done in our name.
                          It’s unfortunately true, that our media have lost all independence and are just mouthpieces for the Powers that Be. Because of this, Western people tend to have a warped view of reality and are unable to hold their politicians to account.

                          Our hopes are focused on your wisdom. We want Peace. We see that Western Governments do not serve the people but are working towards a New World Order. The destruction of sovereign nations and the killing of millions of innocent people is, seemingly, a price worth paying for them, to achieve this goal.

                          We, the people of the Netherlands, want Peace and Justice, also for and with Russia.
                          We hope to make clear that the Dutch Government speaks for itself only. We pray our efforts will help to diffuse the rising tensions between our Nations.

                          Sincerely,

                          Professor Cees Hamelink


                          "We see that Western Governments do not serve the people but are working towards a New World Order. The destruction of sovereign nations and the killing of millions of innocent people is, seemingly, a price worth paying for them, to achieve this goal."

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13670

                            Both sides begin to pull back from front line buffer zone, says Ukraine’s military, following earlier truce.

                            Ukranian officials have said that government troops and pro-Russian rebels are withdrawing forces and artillery from frontline positions in eastern Ukraine following in line with a peace agreement. Monday's withdrawal leaves a 30km buffer between the two sides as part of a nine-point memorandum signed on Saturday. The agreement came after a truce signed on September 5 was hampered by violations, leading to the deaths of 39 Ukrainian troops and civilians. However, reduced fire from pro-Russian rebels in recent days has allowed Ukranian forces to begin to pull back troops, said Anriy Lysenko, a Ukranian military spokesman. Although the withdrawal has begun, it is "not as large as expected", added Lysenko. "We are seeing a trend that [the rebels] are reducing their use of heavy armed weaponry." Neither side has completed their withdrawal. The Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko, said that a continued Ukrainian offensive risked alienating support from the US and other Western governments. More than 3,000 people have died in fighting since April. Separatist regions unresolved. Saturday's agreement does not address the future status of rebel-held regions. Reporting from Donetsk, Al Jazeera's Robin Forestier-Walker said many rebel-held towns rely on gas that flows from Ukranian government-controlled areas. "That is why [separatists] resent the current cease-fire," he said. "They want control of the entire Donestsk region." Ukraine accuses Russia of arming separatists and sending troops into Donetsk and Luhansk in eastern Ukraine, a charge which the Kremlin denies. On Monday, explosions were heard in the north of Donetsk, where fighting in recent weeks has centred on a government-held aiport. The Ukrainian president stressed the difficulty of winning the war in rebel-held regions by military power alone. "The more military groups we have there, the more the Russian army will send," he said.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              Tucker Carlson's take on U.S. meddling in the Russia-Ukraine issue. Good on him for taking a principled stance against the neocons who are found among both republicans and democrats, and even some of his own colleagues on Fox News.

                              'Tucker Carlson Tonight' host addresses Joe Biden's handle on foreign policy.#FoxNews #TuckerSubscribe to Fox News! https://bit.ly/2vBUvASWatch more Fox News...

                              Retired Col. Douglas Macgregor offers analysis on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight' #tucker #foxnewsSubscribe to Fox News! https://bit.ly/2vaBUvASWatch more Fox News ...

                              Former Democratic congresswomen discusses the ‘dangerous’ narrative leaders in Washington are pushing over Russian conflict on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight.' #Tuc...
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              • Carlin
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 3332

                                Latest:

                                - United States raises travel alert for Ukraine to the highest level 4, "Do Not Travel."
                                - Putin will convene the Russian Federation Security Council tomorrow after meeting with Defense Ministry officials.

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