Russia, Ukraine and the West

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

RtG gets triggered. I think that's obvious to everyone. What exactly was so offensive about my opening statement? The fact that I made one? My opinion that Russia is wrong and will eventually lose? Or the fact that mainstream media has some truth in it?

You're right. It did trigger me when you didn't put a link there. But, after so many years, it's nice to see you using a spellchecker or something. We'll have to celebrate the little wins.

Having said that, everyone except you and your mate YuriB has a healthy scepticism about the agenda and veracity of MSM. Perhaps your cardigan got in the way and you missed all the others who raised the same point.

Anyway, I won't go on. I'm sure you are busy fighting for native title and giving your home back to the aborigines as we speak. Leave you to it.

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

You're right. It did trigger me when you didn't put a link there. But, after so many years, it's nice to see you using a spellchecker or something. We'll have to celebrate the little wins.

Having said that, everyone except you and your mate YuriB has a healthy scepticism about the agenda and veracity of MSM. Perhaps your cardigan got in the way and you missed all the others who raised the same point.

Anyway, I won't go on. I'm sure you are busy fighting for native title and giving your home back to the aborigines as we speak. Leave you to it.

You see triggered. Triggered to the point of rambling on about something that has got nothing to do with anything, let alone my views.

[Carlin]

Andrei Martyanov on 101st seizing Odessa: "If...101st is ordered to repeat Al-Tanf thingy with further "de-conflicting" scenario while maintaining some kind of "exclusion zone" in and around Odessa--they need to understand that 101st will be annihilated."

The U.S. Army's 101st Airborne is practicing for war with Russia just miles from Ukraine's border
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbs...games-romania/

[Vangelovski]

Here is one (of many) problem with the Russian army.

The hurried mobilization and deployment of Russian men to fill personnel shortages on the front lines in Ukraine appears to have cannibalized the Russian force-generation system and created a further impediment to effective training and deployment efforts. The Ukrainian General Staff stated on October 24 that Russian commanders have deployed such a quantity of officers and non-commissioned officers that there is a shortage of instructor-teaching staff at training centers. Rank-and-file soldiers reportedly fill in for professionals in many instances. These trainer replacements likely lack the experience and background to provide a level of training sufficient to prepare inexperienced newly mobilized Russian soldiers. ISW previously assessed Russia’s net training capacity has likely decreased since February 24, since the Kremlin deployed training elements to participate in combat in Ukraine and these training elements reportedly took causalities. Several Russian sources further report ineffectively short durations of training prior to the deployment of mobilized Russians...Any attempts to deploy more experienced recruits would require either greater training time or additional strain on the Russian domestic military personnel system.

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ent-october-24

Russian resistance to mobilization continues...An independent Russian news source reported on October 23 that Russian authorities returned many striking mobilized soldiers from Bryansk Oblast to the oblast and moved 30 to military units in Klintsky, Bryansk Oblast. ISW reported on October 12 that over 100 conscripts from Bryansk Oblast refused to deploy to Ukraine from their base at the Belgorod Soloti training ground. Several Russian and Ukrainian sources reported on October 22, 23, and 24 that mobilized Russian soldiers continue to flee their posts or refuse to fight following deployment to Ukraine.

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ent-october-24

Russia’s military mobilization is causing workers to flee Russia, placing stress on the Russian labor market. Russian independent outlet Verstka reported on October 25 that Russian officials from local Moscow government offices are fleeing Russia en masse to avoid mobilization. Verstka reported that between 20 to 30 percent of male IT employees from some departments within the Moscow City Hall fled Moscow, depriving Moscow local government departments of IT support for days. Verstka reported that employees from the Russian Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Digital Development, and the Central Bank are similarly fleeing Russia.

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ent-october-25

[Vangelovski]

This could constitute ethnic cleansing, but obviously its early days and more information is required.

Russian occupation officials continued to indicate that efforts to “evacuate” civilians in Kherson Oblast to the east bank of Dnipro River are part of a wider resettlement scheme. Kherson occupation deputy Kirill Stremousov claimed on October 25 that occupation officials have moved over 22,000 people from the west bank of the Dnipro to the east bank and that the administration’s “resettlement program” (программа переселения) is designed to accommodate 60,000 people. Stremousov’s statement seemingly admits that Russian occupation officials view the evacuations as precursors to the permanent resettlement of a large population of Ukrainians. It is unclear where Russian officials intend to “resettle” those who move from the west bank. The implication of a permanent program designed to resettle Ukrainians in other Russian-occupied territories, and even within Russia itself, may amount to a violation of international law. According to international law, an occupying power has the right to evacuate civilians for their safety with the necessary stipulation that such evacuations are temporary. The implication of a “resettlement program” seems to suggest that Russian officials intend to permanently resettle large parts of Kherson Oblast’s population.

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ent-october-25

[Vangelovski]

An interesting analysis of Russian military weakness (and incompetence). You can download the full report at the link below.

https://www.iiss.org/blogs/survival-...he-ukraine-war

[kompir]

Russia calls for UN Security Council probe of alleged biological labs in Ukraine

https://thehill.com/policy/internati...n-ukraine/amp/

[Carlin]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Here is one (of many) problem with the Russian army.

While all of this might be true the ISW is hardly a "neutral" think tank. It is a US organization, supported in part by contributions from various defence contractors.

In the past ISW criticized both the Obama and Trump administration policies to the Syrian conflict, advocating a more hawkish approach. All of this info is available on Wikipedia. As a result, their writings advocate pro-US foreign policy views.

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Carlin

While all of this might be true the ISW is hardly a "neutral" think tank. It is a US organization, supported in part by contributions from various defence contractors.

In the past ISW criticized both the Obama and Trump administration policies to the Syrian conflict, advocating a more hawkish approach. All of this info is available on Wikipedia. As a result, their writings advocate pro-US foreign policy views.

There is no such thing as a "neutral" point of view, think tank or individual. Everyone has biases and ideological/philosophical views or leanings. Particularly some of the Marxist drivel you repost that is more ideological commentary that factual information.

Just because it's an American orgnisation, does not automatically make it a propaganda machine. The fact that you admit that it criticizes American governments shows that it's not simply a mouthpiece for Washington DC, unlike say, RT which is actually owned by the Russian Government and rarely deviates from the Putin line.

I was not quoting ISW political views, I was quoting information it has provided based on a range of sources, including RUSSIAN sources (news outlets and milbloggers). If you bothered reading it and following the link you might have noticed that.

And what difference does it make what the ISW's political views are if the information provided is true (as you admit it might be)?

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

There is no such thing as a "neutral" point of view, think tank or individual. Everyone has biases and ideological/philosophical views or leanings. Particularly some of the Marxist drivel you repost that is more ideological commentary that factual information.

Just because it's an American orgnisation, does not automatically make it a propaganda machine. The fact that you admit that it criticizes American governments shows that it's not simply a mouthpiece for Washington DC, unlike say, RT which is actually owned by the Russian Government and rarely deviates from the Putin line.

I was not quoting ISW political views, I was quoting information it has provided based on a range of sources, including RUSSIAN sources (news outlets and milbloggers). If you bothered reading it and following the link you might have noticed that.

And what difference does it make what the ISW's political views are if the information provided is true (as you admit it might be)?

"There is no such thing as a "neutral" point of view, think tank or individual. Everyone has biases and ideological/philosophical views or leanings"...you just take this to another level of monochromatic myopia.

You're totally consumed by anti-Soviet/Communist/Russian ZEAL that America can never be bad and Russia can never be good and as long as the MSM frames the narrative according to your preferred worldview then it's simply and conveniently a case of - nothing to see here, just move on...

In much of the info you posted further above in this thread, much of it was sourced from briefings from the Ukrainian General Staff.
Talk about and to use your own words - ""There is no such thing as a "neutral" point of view, think tank or individual. Everyone has biases and ideological/philosophical views or leanings"
In this case, your two sentences can be conveniently boiled down to the term - Psychological Operations (PSYOP), the soft power tool used on opponents since the first human conflicts were recorded.

The entire interest in this thread was to sift through some of the bullshit of the PSYOP as presented daily in the MSM, it never started off with your - Ukraine good, Russia bad and I don't give a fuck about anything else approach..