Russia, Ukraine and the West

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

You didn't suggest I was being ridiculous. You said (pretty much) everyone was being ridiculous. You write poorly (though it has improved a little, bravo), so perhaps you don't realise when you are taking broad swipes like that.

I think it's your comprehension skills that are the problem, not my writing.

I said that the thread is getting a bit ridiculous. I didn't actually call anyone ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

This thread is getting interesting, but also a bit ridiculous tbh.

Then I went on to explain what I mean. I said that "a lot" of people, not everyone, are "creating an impossible standard of discovering facts" by discounting reporting in MSM. Nowhere did I say people are ridiculous. I made a comment relating to one very specific tendency to apply unrealistic standards to our ability to obtain knowledge. Then I went on to explain MY reasoning on why I think MSM can be trusted for the basic facts.

Again, I certainly didn't call anyone ridiculous - just one aspect of this thread.

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

A lot of you are creating an impossible standard for discovering basic facts. I've lost count of how many times people have said everything in the media is a lie. Sure, there is a lot of misinformation, disinformation, ideologically driven narratives and plain old propaganda. But the basic facts are there. For example, there is a war going on in Ukraine. If everything were a lie, then we couldn't even trust that a war was actually happening.

This is apparently what got your knickers in a knot. I'm not sure what has given you so much PTSD about MSM, but it's not my fault.

Then there is more miscomprehension from YOU.

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Dude,
this was my reply to your first post:

I didn't say your first response was berserk. In fact, I'm not sure I even used the word berserk, but maybe I did. Either way, your response (in its totality) to my posts were to that effect.

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

It just had an inherent (and familiar) smell about it I guess. It made me go berserk.

I think we're getting closer to the problem here. You're butthurt.

SoM, is RtG the model forum participant we should all aspire to? Nonsensical rambling, name calling, butthurt reactions? Just so we're clear on expectations?

[Pelagonija]

As much as it pains me to see orthodox brothers killing each other, young people missing limbs and countless suffering. This war is more to do with Americas willingness to implement puppet governments in order to maintain the status quo of the American Fiat currency as and control of resources.

The gay msm May well paint this war as some personal vendetta by Putin to restore some fanciful empire, but the truth is Russia is fighting for its national survival and wealth, in the background few large countries in certain organisations such as opec are in the process of shaking off the US dollar for trade purposes.

The countries that of the North exploit the poorer countries for resources in exchange for paper.

[tchaiku]

Originally Posted by Pelagonija

As much as it pains me to see orthodox brothers killing each other, young people missing limbs and countless suffering. This war is more to do with Americas willingness to implement puppet governments in order to maintain the status quo of the American Fiat currency as and control of resources.

The gay msm May well paint this war as some personal vendetta by Putin to restore some fanciful empire, but the truth is Russia is fighting for its national survival and wealth, in the background few large countries in certain organisations such as opec are in the process of shaking off the US dollar for trade purposes.

The countries that of the North exploit the poorer countries for resources in exchange for paper.

All superpowers are inherently evil. But the West can at least provide a decent economy for most of it's citizens.

Soviet Union has starved millions to death but was that America's or Germans fault too? What about Islamic empires? Or mass genocides driven by Communism? Is the West to blame?

Remember the early phase of the invasion it was all praises from the pro-Russian side as Putin is so brave to destroy the Western world order. Now, as expected the situation has been rendered into "poor Russians are suffering because America pushed them into it". It's a monotone in their history. Like their Orthodox BFF started WW1 and Yugoslav wars and ended up getting playing the victim in the end.

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by tchaiku

All superpowers are inherently evil. But the West can at least provide a decent economy for most of it's citizens.

Soviet Union has starved millions to death but was that America's or Germans fault too? What about Islamic empires? Or mass genocides driven by Communism? Is the West to blame?

Remember the early phase of the invasion it was all praises from the pro-Russian side as Putin is so brave to destroy the Western world order. Now, as expected the situation has been rendered into "poor Russians are suffering because America pushed them into it". It's a monotone in their history. Like their Orthodox BFF started WW1 and Yugoslav wars and ended up getting playing the victim in the end.

You can’t absolve the role of the West in the start of this war in Ukraine nor it’s continued escalation…it’s too complicated to be justified by some arbitrary measure of living standards.

[Carlin]

"WSJ runs an opinion piece arguing that the Russian-controlled Wrangel Island is American land that should be reclaimed by the US. Wrangel is a Crete-sized Arctic island situated between East Siberian Sea and Chukchi Sea."

https://twitter.com/ArtyomLukin/stat...02007201460224

[Carlin]

Ukraine's representative for Crimea, Tamila Tasheva, told the British Newspaper the Daily Mail that they will forcibly expel 800,000 ethnic Russians from the peninsula when it is liberated

[Carlin]

All four defence lines of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Artyomovsk/Bakhmut were broken through. Fierce fighting underway inside the city.

(On 4 February 2016 the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine confirmed the name change of the city by returning to the original one. Bakhmut was the capital of Slavo-Serbia, which was established by Serbian migrants from Austria.)

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Carlin

Ukraine's representative for Crimea, Tamila Tasheva, told the British Newspaper the Daily Mail that they will forcibly expel 800,000 ethnic Russians from the peninsula when it is liberated

To be fair, she was talking about 800,000 Russians she claims entered illegally after Russian invaded Crimea.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-threats.html

[tchaiku]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

This is what you wrote:
You automatically assume that whatever Ukrainian (or Georgian or whichever) governments do is forced on them by Western "benefactors", who have already made the decision for them. Why can’t you just accept the possibility that Ukrainians (or whoever) have freely made those decisions based on what they believe is best for them? I’d ask you to provide evidence of your claims that the world is controlled by Western “benefactors”, but I know you have none.

Serbia which was backed by Russia, enormously, during both WWs and the collapse of Yugoslavia has still somehow managed to become more EU friendly.

Now simply take in perspective, 5 million starved Ukrainians during the Soviet Union, weak economy, lack of democracy and no EU/US benefits.

No wonder, which side would any rational person pick.

Putin is bringing the transgender insanity because he deeply knows he is inferior on making an actual reasonable excuse for his intentions.

[Carlin]

"Azov pagan ritual/worship - blood offering to god Perun"

https://mobile.twitter.com/SameeraKh...39707057795072