Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI)

[Philosopher]

Please note, Macedonian history (from North American institutions) are derived and researched from autonomous sources and independent of Hellenic authority or influence.

e.g. From Britannica (an independent source)
http://www.britannica.com/Ebchecked/...4266/Macedonia

Let's get something straight.

You first write of North American institutions and then reference a British Encyclopedia.

I hate to spoil your Greek party, but no North American institution derives its research from the Encyclopedia Britannica.

That is preposterous.

"The cultural links of prehistoric Macedonia were mainly with Greece and Anatolia. A people who called themselves Macedonians are known from about 700 bce, when they pushed eastward from their home on the Haliacmon (Aliαkmon) River under the leadership of King Perdiccas I and his successors.

This dispute hinges in part on the question of whether this people spoke a form of Greek before the 5th century bce; it is known, however, that by the 5th century bce the Macedonian elite had adopted the Greek language and had also forged a unified kingdom.

Where does your quote end?

Ancient Macedonian history and Greece's current policy regarding the Macedonian question should be exclusive. Ancient Macedonian history is unyielding and cannot be swayed.

Is this part of your quote? Where is this found in the Encyclopedia Britannica article?

Here is the part you left out.

The origin and identity of this people are much debated and are at the centre of a heated modern dispute between those who argue that this people should be considered ethnically Greek and those who argue that they were not Greek or that their origin and identity cannot be determined (see Researcher’s Note: Macedonia: a contested name).

You make it seem that there is some unified scholarly position on the ethnic identity of the ancient Macedonians, when in fact there is not.

This dispute hinges in part on the question of whether this people spoke a form of Greek before the 5th century bce; it is known, however, that by the 5th century bce the Macedonian elite had adopted the Greek language and had also forged a unified kingdom.

No one disputes that the Macedonian elite adopted Greek as a second language. This does not prove they were Greek. It proves that they were not ethnic Greeks.

This does not make Macedonia a Hellenic legacy.

[spitfire]

No one disputes that the Macedonian elite adopted Greek as a second language. This does not prove they were Greek. It proves that they were not ethnic Greeks.

This does not make Macedonia a Hellenic legacy.

A second language? Let's suppose that they wanted to adopt greek. Why would they want to do that and produce an empire with Hellenic characteristics?

That's the trap of searching it through antiquity. You would either have to accept that they were greek, or that they accepted a culture superior to theirs.
A dead end wouldn't you say?
And upon reaching that dead end, in order to continue supporting it, you are left with nothing else than trying to prove that the greeks were not greeks, resulting into a ridicule.

Integrity, integrity, integrity.

[Philosopher]

A second language?

That is what all the evidence of antiquity affirms.

Let's suppose that they wanted to adopt greek. Why would they want to do that and produce an empire with Hellenic characteristics?

Greek was an advanced literary language with an advanced culture. Greek was learned by the Macedonian elite for cultural reasons and later administration of what would become the Macedonian Empire.

The Macedonian Empire was not Hellenic and did not have Hellenic characteristics.

There was no Hellenization policy of the Macedonians.

That's the trap of searching it through antiquity. You would either have to accept that they were greek, or that they accepted a culture superior to theirs.
A dead end wouldn't you say?

Not at all.

Spitfire, why do you believe the New Testament writers, who were almost exclusively Jewish, would write gospels and epistles in Koine Greek and not in Hebrew?

Did they write the New Testament in Koine Greek because they believed the Greek culture was superior to their Semitic culture? Did they write it in Koine Greek because they were closet Greeks? Or did they write it in Koine Greek because Koine Greek was the lingua franca of the Mediterranean, and they were hoping to reach as many people as possible with the New Testament?

[spitfire]

That is what all the evidence of antiquity affirms.

That's ridiculous. Show me the evidence of their different language.

Greek was an advanced literary language with an advanced culture. Greek was learned by the Macedonian elite for cultural reasons and later administration of what would become the Macedonian Empire.

Sure. They knew everything from the start. They knew that they were going to be an empire and started to learn greek for that reason.
I wonder what sort of an empire, or conqueror, starts with the idea of spreading other than his culture.
Only you could come up with it.

The Macedonian Empire was not Hellenic and did not have Hellenic characteristics.

There was no Hellenization policy of the Macedonians.

I see. That's why they learned greek. The Hellinistic period was a pure chance... . They didn't want Hellinistic characteristics. That makes sense.

Spitfire, why do you believe the New Testament writers, who were almost exclusively Jewish, would write gospels and epistles in Koine Greek and not in Hebrew?

Did they write the New Testament in Koine Greek because they believed the Greek culture was superior to their Semitic culture? Did they write it in Koine Greek because they were closet Greeks? Or did they write it in Koine Greek because Koine Greek was the lingua franca of the Mediterranean, and they were hoping to reach as many people as possible with the New Testament?

Philosopher, tell me more about the New Testament. I love it when you mix all the eras.
Greek was not lingua franca at the time of the macedonian expedition.

[Nikolaj]

All your questions Spitfire... You make it seem as though you have an extremely basic understanding of Macedonian history. I personally think you know the answers to your questions, but you're either too arrogant to accept the reality of them or you have some form of looping disorder where you restart discussions from scratch after they've already been analysed heavily (you being in those discussions).

[Philosopher]

That's ridiculous. Show me the evidence of their different language.

It is evident that from Herodotus to Demosthenes to Polybius, the ancient Macedonains were not Greek, and thus did not speak Greek.

The precise sense of "speaking Macedonian" in these and other passages can be and has been debated; yet when these references to Macedonian speech are considered in their context, it is not difficult for one to conclude that what is being reported is the use of a distinct, non-Greek (i.e., "barbarian") Macedonian language.'

Woodward, R.D., (ed.) The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the World's Ancient Languages, Cambridge, 2004

Plutarch wrote: "However, he [Alexander] did not get embarrassed, but jumped to his feet and began to call for his shield bearers in Macedonian, which was a sign of great danger, and ordered his trumpeter to blow the trumpet."


Quntus Curtius Rufus, "Then the king looked at him and said 'Macedonians will be your judges, and I ask you whether you will use their language before them? Besides Macedonians, there are many others here who, to my opinion, will understand what I am going to say, if I use the same language [Hellenic] you used, for no other reason except that, as I trust, my words are understood by the majority of those present. Do you see to what degree Philotas denies his father's language? He finds it repulisve to speak in that language!..but do not forget that he does not even respect his customs, or his own language.'"

The implication is that his own language was not the Hellenic he was using.

Max Fosmer, one of the great experts on Balkan languages, categorically states that the ancient Macedonian language was different from ancient Greek.

'Plutarch, the Greek savant of the first and second centuries AD. when writing of Cleopatra (Life of Antony 27.3-4), the last of the Ptolemies (the Macedonian kings of Egypt), lauds her linguistic abilities, reporting that she could speak the languages of the Ethiopians, Troglodytes, Hebrews, Arabs, Syrians, Medes and Parthians. In contrast, her male predecessors had not even learned Egyptian and some had even "ceased to speak Macedonian".'

Woodward, R.D., (ed.) The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the World's Ancient Languages, Cambridge, 2004, p.13

Note that the Macedonian language is lumped with other national languages, an impossibility if "Macedonian" was merely a dialect of Greek.

What was the Mother Tongue of Alexander the Great

As you can see, Bryan Abraham is stressing out that the Greek Scholar Ms. Panagiotou's
attempt to present the referring passages as referring to northern Hellenic dialect falls of convincing.

Now to move on forward. In Ancient Texts there are various verbs for describing different cultural forms and their specific languages. For example, one can find multiple documents that use the verb ελληνιζω which was used to describe some one who is “Greek Speaking”.

The verb on it self is constructed out of the noun Έλλην and Ending -ιζο
In “Griechisches etymologisches Wφrterbuch / von Hjalmar Frisk . – Heidelberg” Word ελληνιζω is translated as “Greek Speaking”.

Later derivation form this verb is the noun ελληνισμος translated as “Greek way of expression, talking”.

Other than the above mentioned ελληνιζω verb, in similar way how the noun ελληνισμος was constructed, there were also other nouns construction , such as αττικισμος which meant “Attic way of expression, talking”.

It is important to make it clear that there were no such verb as αττικιζω or τεσσαλιζω, but only the one and only verb ελληνιζω, contrary to the nouns built with the –ισμος ending.

And there we come to the point.

There is for example the verb θρακιζω which meant “Thracian Speaking”, and of course there was the verb μακεδονιζω which of course means “Macedonian Speaking”.

To get it straight out:

ελληνιζω > Greek Speaking
γραικιζω > Greek Speaking
θρακιζω> Thracian Speaking
ιλλυριζω > Speak the Illyrian language
περσιζω > in the Persian tongue
present also as Adjective
περσιστι > persian speaking
φρύγιζω > to be like the Phrygians
but φρύγιζω τη φωνη > to use Phrygian words, tongue
present Adjective as φρύγιστι > Phrygian speaking

μακεδονιζω > Macedonian Speaking

Arian used the word in the following way: μακεδονιζων τη φωνη
Plutarch used it in the Biography of Mark Antony as following: μακεδονιζειν(obvious Gramatical change form from μακεδονιζω) as well in the Bibliography of Eumenes he wrote:μακεδονιστι τη φωνη.

The word φονη actually meant language, as can be seen in the example in the Drama Agamemnon written by Aeschylus where written:
αγνωτα φονην βαρβαρον -> the unknown barbarian language.
The same word for language is written by Xenophon in his Kunegetikos 2.3
where he says: φονην Ηελληνα -> the Hellenic language.


This is the very same words which the Greek Scholars are desperately trying to assign the meaning of “Macedonian way of expression, talking“ and "Sound,Voice", which does not stand the reality, cause the noun to express this is with the ending–ισμος as shown above and φωνη was used for "Language" and not for "Voice".

Because, if we get the Greek Scholars for granted, that the word μακεδονιζω meant “Macedonian way of speaking” in a manner of in some Greek Dialect, than the verb θρακιζω should be understood as “Thracian way of speaking" in Greek, suggesting that the Thracians spoke some Dialect of Greek, which we all know is not the reality

It is the same with the “μακεδονιζων τη φωνη" which would be translated as "Macedonian speaking language" and not as Macedonian Sounding speach in a manner of some Dialect.

According to Liddell and Scott, the word with this meaning:
Μακεδονιζω > to be on the Macedonian side
used in the works of Plb. 20.5.5, Plu. Alex.30

but
μακεδονιζω > to speak Macedonian
used in: Id.Ant.27, Ath. 3.122a

Hence Adjective
μακεδονιστι > speak in Macedonian language: μακεδονιστι τη φωνη
used in: Plu. Eum. 14

In other words, the Ancient Macedonian spoke their own language, as clearly stated by the Ancient Authors.

A Greek English lexicon / comp. by Henry George Liddell and Robert Scott. Rev. and augmented throughout by Henry Stuart Jones . - New (9.) ed., reprint, with a supplement . - Oxford : Clarendon Press , 1968 . - Getr. [Bearb.]

"Griechisches etymologisches Wφrterbuch" von Hjalmar Frisk . – Heidelberg

Sure. They knew everything from the start. They knew that they were going to be an empire and started to learn greek for that reason.

The Macedonian court initially learned Greek to study Greek literature and culture. They were fond of Greek literature and culture. When the Macedonian Empire developed, Greek was already known by the Macedonian court.

Greek was used in the Macedonian Empire because Greek was already well known in the Mediterranean. The Macedonian language, however, was not.

I wonder what sort of an empire, or conqueror, starts with the idea of spreading other than his culture. Only you could come up with it.

The Macedonian Empire did not have a formal policy of spreading Greek language and culture.

I see. That's why they learned greek. The Hellinistic period was a pure chance... . They didn't want Hellinistic characteristics. That makes sense.

They learned Greek for literary and culture reasons. The Hellenistic period has been misinterpreted by historians.

Let me explain. The amount of ethnic Greeks in the Macedonian administration under Alexander the Great was small, and they served the same basic functions as the ethnic Greeks did in the Persian Empire.

This is what Eugene Borza wrote on the so-called Hellenizaiton policy of the Macedonians.

None of this adds up to a policy of hellenization. Perhaps we can see something in the relationship between Alexander and the Greeks themselves. There is one feature of Alexander's administration that has not been much examined, and that is the ethnicity of the persons who surrounded the king. If, for example, it could be shown that Greeks were often selected to hold important posts in imperial administration, one might conclude that that very selection and Alexander's dependence upon those Greeks were tantamount to a policy of hellenization. What was the role of the Greeks associated with Alexander during his Asian campaign? What military or administrative assignments were they given? How close were they to the king?

Of needs we turn to that magisterial data bank of Alexander's reign, the Das Alexanderreich of Helmut Berve, published nearly seven decades ago, but still the most useful compilation of prosopographical evidence relating to the Macedonian conqueror. What follows is based on a computer-assisted study of Alexander's associates, using the data from Berve, with some corrections and modifications. The computer was used to organize several categories of information about these persons, such as ethnic background and cursus honorum. A simple sort and list routine enabled the extraction of information about the individuals according to category. The two categories of information used here are: (1) ethnic origin, and (2) the offices or commands held by persons according to ethnicity. What follows are some of the conclusions arising from this study of ethnicity, with the following caveats: first, there are a number of persons in Berve's list whose origin is uncertain. I have taken this problem into account, although the number is too small to affect much the outcome of the study. Second, I believe that one can make valid ethnic distinctions among the peoples of antiquity.

The ancient authors themselves did so regularly, and such distinctions are a necessary component of my method. On the matter of distinctions between Greeks and Macedonians in particular, I accept the general view expressed by Ernst Badian in his paper, "Greeks and Macedonians."12 Badian showed that in antiquity, neither Greeks nor Macedonians considered the Macedonians to be Greek. The ethnic distinctions in the present study are: mainland Greek, Asian and island Greek, Macedonian, other Balkan, Persian, other Asian, and a small miscellaneous category for the remainder. Of the nearly 850 persons listed by Berve, 275 are either certainly or probably ethnic Greeks. Of this number, 126 persons are not associated with Alexander's train, and thus outside present concerns. Of the 149 which remain, sixty-nine-nearly half-are court figures not associated with administration.

They are there mainly for what one might call “cultural" reasons. They include sophists, physicians, actors, athletes, musicians, jugglers and other entertainers, and a variety of hangers-on. Eighty names remain. Of these three are of uncertain ethnic origin. Twenty-four Greeks serve the king in a variety of administrative tasks: some are envoys, some are clerks, some financial officers, some act as the king's agents in local places. They pop in and out of the historical record as Alexander sees the need to employ them. More of these Greeks are Asian than European. Beyond that there is no pattern or apparent policy. The king uses these people because he finds it expedient to exploit individual skills. The remaining fifty-three Greeks serve specific military functions. Of these, the extraordinary number of twenty-two names are attached to a single unit, the allies from Orchomenos, who are dismissed along with the other Greek allies in 330 B.C. Fourteen other Greeks hold naval appointments, either as ship commanders on the Hydaspes fleet, or in conjunction with Nearchus' ocean voyage. Four Greeks are in charge of mercenary units, and nine others have unspecified, low-level military assignments.

Seven have duties that did not take them beyond Egypt, where a number remained to carry on administrative tasks. In summary, of the 149 known Greeks with official connections to the king, only thirty-five to forty held positions of rank-some as officers, some as administrators, but only a handful in top positions. A look at Alexander's satrapal appointments reveals a similar pattern. We know of fifty-two different persons who held satrapies in Alexander's empire over a dozen years. Of these, twenty-four were Persians and Asians, a number of them continuing in posts held earlier under Darius. Twenty-three Macedonian satrapal appointments were made, nearly the same number as Asians. There are only five An examination of the satrapal offices held at the time of Alexander's death shows that of the twenty-four known satraps, six were easterners, fifteen were Macedonian and three were Greek, in this case-stretching the ethnic definition Nearchus (#544) and Sibyrtius (#703) of Crete, and Cleomenes (#431) of Egypt The pattern is clear: the trend toward the end of the king's life was to install Macedonians in key positions at the expense of Asians, and to retain very few Greeks. Similarly, of the twenty-four garrison commanders mentioned in Arrian, twenty-one are Macedonian, two are Indian and only one is Greek-Lycidas (#475), who was left in charge of mercenaries in Egypt. Alexander's inner circle, his hetairoi, would appear to replicate the pattern. Of the sixty-five or so men named as hetairoi, nine are Greek, including three mainlanders. Of the nine, four owed their positions to life-long connections with Macedon: Nearchus (#544) and the brothers Erygius (#302) and Laomedon (#464) were in fact raised as Macedonians, and Demaratus (#253) of Corinth had been associated with the court, since the time of Philip II.

Thus we look in vain for the evidence that Alexander was heavily dependent upon Greeks either in quantity or quality. We learn that rather few Greeks beyond the sycophants and entertainers at court were associated with the king either in his inner circle or in important military and administrative positions.13

There is one exception, however, the faithful and competent Greek grammateus Eumenes (#317) of Cardia, but he may be the exception that proves the rule. And if there were any doubt about the status of Greeks among the Macedonians, the tragic career of Eumenes in the immediate Wars of Succession should put it to rest. The ancient sources are replete with information about the ethnic prejudice Eumenes suffered from Macedonians.14

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/NoHellenization.pdf

Philosopher, tell me more about the New Testament. I love it when you mix all the eras.

Why don't you answer the question Spitfire.

Greek was not lingua franca at the time of the macedonian expedition.

New research shows Greek material culture, at the very least, existed in the Middle East at least a century before Alexander the Great.

In time, I suspect, it will be proved that Greek literary culture existed in north Africa and south west Asia long before Alexander the Great.

— Way back in the fourth century B.C., a young Alexander the Great thundered across what is now the Middle East in a bloody mission that ranks among the most brilliant military conquests in history.

And according to almost any textbook, Alexander, though barely out of his teens, paved the way for the rapid spread of Greek culture throughout that tortured land.

But according to some intriguing research, the young Macedonian's achievements may not have been as great as his name implies. The evidence suggests quite strongly that Greek material culture, at least, flourished as far away as the coast of what is now Israel at least a century before Alexander's conquests.

The findings dispute the widely held belief that Hellenization, or the spread of Greek culture, "went into high gear" on the heels of Alexander's military exploits, says Andrew F. Stewart, an art historian and archaeologist at the University of California, Berkeley, who is heading up an international team of experts investigating the matter.

"What we think we can prove is that's not true," Stewart says.

The evidence also suggests that Greek culture did not increase, at least in that area, under Alexander.

"If anything there was a bit of retrenchment," Stewart says.

Greek culture did not increase under Alexander, but decreased.

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=97611&page=1&singlePage=true%20%28Hellenization%20Policy%20of%20Alexander%29

[spitfire]

To get it straight out:

ελληνιζω > Greek Speaking
γραικιζω > Greek Speaking
θρακιζω> Thracian Speaking
ιλλυριζω > Speak the Illyrian language
περσιζω > in the Persian tongue
present also as Adjective
περσιστι > persian speaking
φρύγιζω > to be like the Phrygians
but φρύγιζω τη φωνη > to use Phrygian words, tongue
present Adjective as φρύγιστι > Phrygian speaking

μακεδονιζω > Macedonian Speaking

Arian used the word in the following way: μακεδονιζων τη φωνη
Plutarch used it in the Biography of Mark Antony as following: μακεδονιζειν(obvious Gramatical change form from μακεδονιζω) as well in the Bibliography of Eumenes he wrote:μακεδονιστι τη φωνη.

The word φονη actually meant language, as can be seen in the example in the Drama Agamemnon written by Aeschylus where written:
αγνωτα φονην βαρβαρον -> the unknown barbarian language.
The same word for language is written by Xenophon in his Kunegetikos 2.3
where he says: φονην Ηελληνα -> the Hellenic language.


This is the very same words which the Greek Scholars are desperately trying to assign the meaning of “Macedonian way of expression, talking“ and "Sound,Voice", which does not stand the reality, cause the noun to express this is with the ending–ισμος as shown above and φωνη was used for "Language" and not for "Voice".

Because, if we get the Greek Scholars for granted, that the word μακεδονιζω meant “Macedonian way of speaking” in a manner of in some Greek Dialect, than the verb θρακιζω should be understood as “Thracian way of speaking" in Greek, suggesting that the Thracians spoke some Dialect of Greek, which we all know is not the reality

It is the same with the “μακεδονιζων τη φωνη" which would be translated as "Macedonian speaking language" and not as Macedonian Sounding speach in a manner of some Dialect.

According to Liddell and Scott, the word with this meaning:
Μακεδονιζω > to be on the Macedonian side
used in the works of Plb. 20.5.5, Plu. Alex.30

but
μακεδονιζω > to speak Macedonian
used in: Id.Ant.27, Ath. 3.122a

Hence Adjective
μακεδονιστι > speak in Macedonian language: μακεδονιστι τη φωνη
used in: Plu. Eum. 14

In other words, the Ancient Macedonian spoke their own language, as clearly stated by the Ancient Authors.

Absolute crap!

Tell me Philosopher. What does Pagratizein means in greek? According to that crap someone from the area of Pagrati Athens speaks a different language than the rest of the Athenians.

If you don't know how the -ing is formed in greek, you shouldn't make such false statements.

I'm waiting from you to show me their different language. With evidence. Show me the ancient macedonian language and its form.

Φωνη means both voice and language and even pronunciation depending on the context, the differentiation of which the above cite does not explain adequatelly.

You should start learning some greek Philosopher.

[Philosopher]

Absolute crap!

The writings are of distinguished scholars. I beg to differ with your language.

Tell me Philosopher. What does Pagratizein means in greek? According to that crap someone from the area of Pagrati Athens speaks a different language than the rest of the Athenians.

If you don't know how the -ing is formed in greek, you shouldn't make such false statements.

They are not my statements. They are statements by scholars.

I'm waiting from you to show me their different language. With evidence. Show me the ancient macedonian language and its form.

Φωνη means both voice and language depending on the context, the differentiation of which the above cite does not explain adequatelly.

You should start learning some greek Philosopher.

The statements are not mine, but from scholars who know far more than you do Spitfire.

Phone, in the context in which the scholars analyzed the word, means language, and not merely sound or voice.

The evidence you ask for was already given. It is widely known that the written Macedonian language only exists in fragments, and the words were not Greek.

Because, if we get the Greek Scholars for granted, that the word μακεδονιζω meant “Macedonian way of speaking” in a manner of in some Greek Dialect, than the verb θρακιζω should be understood as “Thracian way of speaking" in Greek, suggesting that the Thracians spoke some Dialect of Greek, which we all know is not the reality

Was Thracian a Greek dialect? If not, why is Macedonian?

Spitfire, I see discussing these matters with you is a waste of time, because you have very little knowledge on the subject, and your grasp on reality is very low.

[spitfire]

The writings are of distinguished scholars. I beg to differ with your language.

Yes you beg. You beg so much that you say that it is from distinguished scholars, and not a collection of parts to suit your agenda.

Do that again with the greek language and you 'll be faced with greek language, that you so much beg for it.

They are not my statements. They are statements by scholars.

It's a collection of statement that your ignorance of the greek language fails to understand.

The statements are not mine, but from scholars who know far more than you do Spitfire.

It's a collection swed together to fit your imagination. You haven't explained Pagratizein.

Phone, in the context in which the scholars analyzed the word, means language, and not merely sound or voice.

The evidence you ask for was already given. It is widely known that the written Macedonian language only exists in fragments, and the words were not Greek.



Was Thracian a Greek dialect? If not, why is Macedonian?

Spitfire, I see discussing these matters with you is a waste of time, because you have very little knowledge on the subject, and your grasp on reality is very low.

Blah blah blah.

What does Pagratizein mean Philosopher? How is the gerund formed and what does it mean in greek, can you say?

No you can't.

Show me those fragments. And you 'd better show me something that is not from Professor Charlatanov.

[spitfire]

Quote:
This is the very same words which the Greek Scholars are desperately trying to assign the meaning of “Macedonian way of expression, talking“ and "Sound,Voice", which does not stand the reality, cause the noun to express this is with the ending–ισμος as shown above and φωνη was used for "Language" and not for "Voice".

Because, if we get the Greek Scholars for granted, that the word μακεδονιζω meant “Macedonian way of speaking” in a manner of in some Greek Dialect, than the verb θρακιζω should be understood as “Thracian way of speaking" in Greek, suggesting that the Thracians spoke some Dialect of Greek, which we all know is not the reality

It is the same with the “μακεδονιζων τη φωνη" which would be translated as "Macedonian speaking language" and not as Macedonian Sounding speach in a manner of some Dialect.

According to Liddell and Scott, the word with this meaning:
Μακεδονιζω > to be on the Macedonian side
used in the works of Plb. 20.5.5, Plu. Alex.30

but
μακεδονιζω > to speak Macedonian
used in: Id.Ant.27, Ath. 3.122a

Hence Adjective
μακεδονιστι > speak in Macedonian language: μακεδονιστι τη φωνη
used in: Plu. Eum. 14

In other words, the Ancient Macedonian spoke their own language, as clearly stated by the Ancient Authors.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Look at this mess! What -ισμος? The Thracians were speaking greek now Philosopher?
From the verb to an adjective which is not an adjective but an adverb?

You took parts from here and there, added a few irrelevant conclusions of your own and you present this as an educated view?

I don't know where to begin with those mistakes Philosopher. You should stop using propaganda because you prove non the less how uneducated you are on the subject.

[spitfire]

All your questions Spitfire... You make it seem as though you have an extremely basic understanding of Macedonian history. I personally think you know the answers to your questions, but you're either too arrogant to accept the reality of them or you have some form of looping disorder where you restart discussions from scratch after they've already been analysed heavily (you being in those discussions).

I see that you are a tele-psychoanalyst. Do you happen to know were can I find a tele-urinologist?

[spitfire]

Το Λακωνίζειν εστί φιλοσοφείν.

Laconizing is philosophising. The Spartan way of speaking that is. Meaning to speak with a few words with much meaning. It doesn't mean to speak in a different language.
Stick this up your scholars Philosopher. Let's see how they use their φωνή (in this case meaning screaming).

How dare you present this crap? We are not illiterates, in case you think so Philosopher.

[George S.]

There is np connect with the languages they are different.One race of people cannot belong to another race because the govt says so.

[spitfire]

There is np connect with the languages they are different.One race of people cannot belong to another race because the govt says so.

Pragmatizing? In this case πραγματί-ζειν in greek. Gee you write in a different language than the one I can read then... .
Let me guess. You are doing that in a pragmatic way. Therefore πραγματ-ιστί in greek.

It doesn't take too much to understand what this is all about. Just plain knowledge of greek. There is always imagination as an alternative.
Guess what. Ζειν in greek means living. Take it and make it a suffix to any greek word. There you have a way of living described by the prefix.
In other words, get a life... .

[MHRMI]

Can you spare a dollar a day for Macedonian human rights?

Can you spare a dollar a day for Macedonian human rights?

Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) - February 12, 2015

Our time is now. Despite the persecution and scare-tactics carried out by the governments of Greece, Bulgaria and Albania, Macedonians are still proudly declaring themselves as Macedonians and demanding their human rights.

Even though Macedonians have been arrested by Bulgarian secret police, received death threats by Albanian government officials and attacked by Greek neo-Nazis and police, they are not intimidated. Festivals celebrating Macedonian culture and language are happening throughout Aegean Macedonia, where people proudly sing and dance patriotic Macedonian songs. Commemorations honouring Macedonian heroes occur throughout Pirin Macedonia and the original Macedonian flag flies proudly in Mala Prespa, Albania including the villages in which Macedonian politicians have been elected.

The Macedonian human rights movement in all parts of Macedonia is stronger and showing more potential than ever, but we need your help to continue our progress. Get involved. Volunteer. Donate. Join the MHRMI Dollar a Day fund and make a difference.

Macedonian Human Rights Movement International, and our partners the Australian Macedonian Human Rights Committee, finance and organize all Macedonian human rights activities in the Balkans. Among our many initiatives are:

• Macedonian language classes throughout Aegean Macedonia, Pirin Macedonia and Albania, including the opening of another kindergarten in Korca;
• The purchase and financing of a Macedonian radio station in Lerin and TV station in Korca, Albania;
• The funding of Nova Zora, Narodna Volja and other Macedonian newspapers and publications in Aegean Macedonia, Pirin Macedonia and Mala Prespa/Golo Brdo;
• The crucial Our Name is Macedonia campaign, which demands an immediate end to the name negotiations;
• Funding cultural festivals for Macedonians in all parts of Macedonia in order to spread Macedonian culture, language and to demand human rights;
• The operation of human rights offices for Macedonians in Bulgaria, Greece and Albania;
• Funding the opening of a Macedonian Cultural Centre in Lerin, Aegean Macedonia;
• Funding successful election campaigns for Macedonians in Albania, Greece and Bulgaria in order to advocate for Macedonian human rights;
• Attendance at United Nations and European human rights conferences demanding an end to discrimination against Macedonians;
• Demanding recognition and support for Macedonia and Macedonian human rights in Washington, Ottawa, Brussels and throughout the world.

You can make a difference for Macedonians struggling to achieve their human rights. Please do it today. Thank you for your support.

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Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) has been active on human and national rights issues for Macedonians and other oppressed peoples since 1986. For more information: www.mhrmi.org, www.twitter.com/mhrmi, www.facebook.com/mhrmi, [email protected], +1 416-850-7125.