Edmond de Bushi Bell: It's obvious that the Macedonians are not Greeks

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  • The LION will ROAR
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 3231

    Edmond de Bushi Bell: It's obvious that the Macedonians are not Greeks

    Edmond de Bushi Bell: It's obvious that the Macedonians are not Greeks

    Едмонд Бушие де Бел, роден на 23 август 1878 година во Везиње, Франција. Завршил класична гимназија во Кондорсе, а потоа дипломирал на правниот факултет.


    Google Translator

    Edmond de Bushi Bell, born on August 23, 1878 in Vezinje, France. Graduated high school in classical Condorcet, and then graduated from the Faculty of Law. As a doctor of law, was a senior financial officer in Paris, an adviser at the Ministry of Finance, and during World War II occupied a prominent place at the Headquarters of the French Eastern Army in the Balkans.

    Upon arrival at the Thessaloniki Front, Edmond de Bushi Bell was able to stay longer bend of Black River, where it remains for six months. Then follow the Army in Island Lake, Lerin, Bitola, Prilep and Skopje, where he ended his life time. He died in Skopje on 20 October 1918.

    Edmond de Bell Bushi at that time wrote a book about Macedonia and Macedonians, who after his death was printed in Paris in 1922 under the title: "La Macedoine et Les Macedoniens", (1922 Raridz, 80, IV. 303). Book of Edmond Bushi de Bell, which appears in print, four years after his death, was awarded the French Academy of Sciences. Today, when Greece and Macedonia denied the right to use the name, the book of Edmond de Bushi Bell is interesting and important from several aspects.

    Realizing that Macedonia for a long time will be subject to the attention of Europe, Edmond de Bushi Bell tries to give its decision on the Macedonian issue. Based on personal observations and experiences gained during his stay in Macedonia in their records, he concludes that, although the population is similar yet different from Bulgarians, Serbs, and that "Macedonian Slavs are not Greeks." Edmond Bushi not only distinguishes the population in Macedonia, but also as a solution indicates that "the population of Macedonia should be separate as a separate nation whose name would be shortened Macedonians." Such statements and its solution are particularly interesting so you transfer the excerpts from his book where he says:

    "Neither yesterday nor today, dates back to the Macedonian question. Makedonija had a long history behind them, in the future will cease to deal Europe. That Macedonia and became known to Europe is due mainly to two facts, namely: its geographical position as a crossroads of global routes: one from Belgrade and Novi Pazar through the Vardar Valley to Salonika and the other - the old Via Egnatia from the Durres of Thessaloniki, Thessaloniki, while as a port of Macedonia and in importance does not stand back from Constantinople and Suez. From Thessaloniki you can rule over the Eastern Mediterranean and Asia over the road.

    Another cause is that the population is different by nationality, origin and above it still long implemented tactics of influence by the neighboring Balkan countries, supported by major powers, whose interests are related to the position of the Balkan countries ...

    Macedonia has three sets populated nations. One is contested nationality Macedonian Slavs, or, briefly speaking Macedonians who formed the core of the rural population. Then appear three other nations that seek to rule over the Macedonians, Bulgarians, Serbs and Greeks and three of the dispute distant nations: Vlachs, Turks and Jews. But none of these nations inhabit a particular territory Sun, but occur here and there in the country. After all fields of Macedonia encountered a nation of peasants with a Slavic language istochnopravoslavna religion. They Bulgarians consider their own "language and heart," even invoking the Great Bulgaria, created by the Treaty of San Stefano and the name "Bulgarians", under which victims of the Berlin Treaty fought against Turkish slavery. Serbs consider "Serbia" - because Dushanovata state is sometimes included "the whole of Macedonia", the monuments that have survived the Turkish language and that slavery was "starosrpski" and because the Macedonians worshiped the "glory". Finally come the Greeks, that no decisive importance origin or language, but only the "spirit" and culture, which was Greek, and as the French, for example, could not say that they are not Latin, and for Macedonians could not be said that they are "Greeks."

    It's obvious that the Macedonian Slavs are not Greeks. But despite the fact that they have some similarities in nature, religion and language with Bulgarians and Serbs, they are characterized by both of the others. Ask a villager from Ile area, or from Bitola, how he feels, he will answer nine times out of ten: Macedonian! Therefore Slavic population of Macedonia should be separate as a separate nation whose name would be Macedonian Slavs or part, Macedonians ... "

    While French diplomacy has always been well acquainted with the situation in Macedonia, as a major force that played a visible role in the world and influenced historical trends, it played a constructive role in preserving the integrity of Macedonia. Starting from their own interests, often their "sympathy" guided to Serbia and Greece, ie those who had a big appetite to Macedonia. Unlike her French intellectuals have always looked with sympathy towards the Macedonian people.
    However, as in the past and today, the issue of any of the EU feel the citizens of Macedonia, they will respond to ten, ten times that they are Macedonians, and that will not change the name. So, as a leading country in the EU, France knows well that Macedonia should once and for all to stand on their request nezasitnite Poulain Greece and to help Macedonia become an EU and NATO.
    The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!
  • ournirv
    Junior Member
    • Jan 2012
    • 16

    #2
    Hey. I'm new here but have been reading for quite some time.

    I feel as though you're omitting a part of this Edmond fellow's quote. The first sentence of the 8th paragraph actually says "It's obvious that the Macedonian Slavs are not Greeks." The article actually says it for a second time in paragraph 4.

    Anyhow! Just saying your topic line should appear how it is actually appearing in the article or as "Edmond de Bushi Bell: It's obvious that the Macedonians ... are not Greeks" to show there is more to the quote.

    Comment

    • George S.
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 10116

      #3
      Ourmirv welcome aboard.Anyone worth their salt should know the difference anything else is just propaganda.Logic is defied as one group of people greeks are trying to say they are another group od people macedonian.The two people's are not the same.Simple observance as in the article can tell a lot of their differences.
      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
      GOTSE DELCEV

      Comment

      • ournirv
        Junior Member
        • Jan 2012
        • 16

        #4
        that's not what greeks are saying though. my understanding of the position is that ancient macedonians (athenians, spartans, etc, etc) were greeks. i dont think i ever heard anywhere that greeks were claiming the "macedonian slavs" as greeks considering the slav element came to the balkan peninsula quite some time later.

        as it says in the article "Macedonia has three sets populated nations. One is contested nationality Macedonian Slavs, or, briefly speaking Macedonians who formed the core of the rural population. Then appear three other nations that seek to rule over the Macedonians, Bulgarians, Serbs and Greeks and three of the dispute distant nations: Vlachs, Turks and Jews."

        if that is the case, along with macedonian slavs there are macedonian bulgarians, macedonian greeks, macedonian serbs, macedonian vlachs, macedonian turks, and macedonian jews. from reading the article, it appears as though the term macedonian is just a regional adjective followed by an ethnicity/nationality.

        and thanks for the welcome!

        Comment

        • El Bre
          Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 713

          #5
          that's not what Greeks are saying though. my understanding of the position is that ancient Macedonians (Athenians, Spartans, etc, etc) were Greeks. i don't think i ever heard anywhere that Greek's were claiming the "Macedonian Slavs" as Greeks considering the Slav element came to the Balkan peninsula quite some time later.
          You need to get out more.

          as it says in the article "Macedonia has three sets populated nations. One is contested nationality Macedonian Slavs, or, briefly speaking Macedonians who formed the core of the rural population. Then appear three other nations that seek to rule over the Macedonians, Bulgarians, Serbs and Greeks and three of the dispute distant nations: Vlachs, Turks and Jews."

          if that is the case, along with Macedonian Slavs there are Macedonian Bulgarians, Macedonian Greeks, Macedonian Serbs, Macedonian Vlachs, Macedonian turks, and Macedonian Jews. from reading the article, it appears as though the term Macedonian is just a regional adjective followed by an ethnicity/nationality.
          I don't know where you get that from what is written above. As far as I can tell, the Macedonians are the only group that aren't using the term Macedonian as a "regional adjective"
          Last edited by El Bre; 01-08-2012, 06:45 PM.

          Comment

          • Bill77
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2009
            • 4545

            #6
            Originally posted by ournirv View Post
            that's not what greeks are saying though.
            I'll tell you exactly what Greeks are saying. Modern Macedonians was created by Tito. Prior to the division of Macedonia, there was no Macedonians or anyone claiming to be one (in an ethnic sense) only Greek or Bulgarian.

            So how does the "Edmond de Bushi Bell" article proove some of you Greek morons are liers? By the following observation, "Ask a villager from Ile area, or from Bitola, how he feels, he will answer nine times out of ten: Macedonian!"

            That's 90 percent (according to him) feel they are Ethnic Macedonians, and don't twist it as its meaning anything else but a Ethnic sense. Otherwise it means the remaining 10% are two drunk or lost to know geographically where they are.


            Originally posted by ournirv View Post
            my understanding of the position is that ancient macedonians (athenians, spartans, etc, etc) were greeks
            If you have been reading for quite some time, as you claimed in your opening post, you would have read enough posts, articles, from both ancient and modern sources that this Greek position is also a lie.

            On top of that, you would have read, that modern Greeks are not really sons of Pericles, Demostenisa and Socrates. So i wouldn't use Ancient times to prove modern times as an argument.

            Originally posted by ournirv View Post
            as it says in the article "Macedonia has three sets populated nations. One is contested nationality Macedonian Slavs,
            Before you get carried away, i want to point out the "Slav" bit was used only by Edmond de Bushi Bell, which was common coming from a westerner (please search and read further why the west would use such term) but importantly, the population felt they were only "Macedonian".

            he will answer nine times out of ten: Macedonian!
            Last edited by Bill77; 01-08-2012, 07:11 PM.
            http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873

            Comment

            • George S.
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 10116

              #7
              ournirv welcome abourd can you didtinguish that which is propaganda & that which is not.
              The greeks to hide the fact that macedonians exist have said they don't exist.They have invented the nyth of slav macedonians like pseudo macedonians or a claytons macedonian.
              In it's place they have said oever time they have become macedonbian.They have claimed the macedonians spoke greek & they must be greek.Speaking a language doesmt make it so.The facts are greek was widely spoken as a koine or lingua franca.They used greek for trade or commerce.The macedonians had their own mother toungue of which the greeks could not understand.That's why macedonians were called barbarians.
              The macedonians identify as simply macedonian & not as slavs.
              Canyou tell me why did the greeks spend so many million dollars to change everything to greekj to rewrite history & newspapers to refer evereything greek as hellene & as well as macedonian.& vice versa.
              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
              GOTSE DELCEV

              Comment

              • George S.
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2009
                • 10116

                #8
                ournirv you might like to rethink that greeks were influenced by slavs as well just as much as any other country. For example they went to macedonia,bulgaria,serbia,albania & turkey.The slavs went everywhere as well as greece.The rest is just propaganda to smear macedonians as slavs.
                Last edited by George S.; 01-08-2012, 10:35 PM. Reason: ed
                "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                GOTSE DELCEV

                Comment

                • ournirv
                  Junior Member
                  • Jan 2012
                  • 16

                  #9
                  All I'm saying is the topic title isn't a direct quote and could is misleading. Dont have time right now to respond to the other stuff, but I'll get to it soon I'm sure!

                  @george: "The rest is just propaganda to smear macedonians as slavs." What's so bad about the Slavs? They're somewhere in all our Balkan bloodlines.

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15658

                    #10
                    Originally posted by ournirv View Post
                    They're somewhere in all our Balkan bloodlines.
                    If they are, can you describe them please?
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Stojacanec
                      Member
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 809

                      #11
                      Ourniv, you found enough time to try and push something that resembles Greek propaganda until you ran out of time, but as for this line from Edmund B:


                      But none of these nations (Greeks/Serbs/Bulgarians)inhabit a particular territory, but occur here and there in the country

                      Sort of destroy's the myth of Macedonia being 4000 years Greek. The sort of lies that the Greek nation is built on.

                      Comment

                      • ournirv
                        Junior Member
                        • Jan 2012
                        • 16

                        #12

                        Comment

                        • ournirv
                          Junior Member
                          • Jan 2012
                          • 16

                          #13
                          I don't see how Edmond talking about his trip in the region in modern times brought you to that conclusion stoj. Populations move. When nations were formed out of the ottoman empire, ethnic groups shifted to join their kin by will and by force.

                          Comment

                          • Stojacanec
                            Member
                            • Dec 2009
                            • 809

                            #14
                            Originally posted by ournirv View Post
                            I don't see how Edmond talking about his trip in the region in modern times brought you to that conclusion stoj. Populations move. When nations were formed out of the ottoman empire, ethnic groups shifted to join their kin by will and by force.
                            Isn't that how the Greek state was formed?

                            Comment

                            • Risto the Great
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 15658

                              #15
                              Originally posted by ournirv View Post
                              Was that your attempt at describing "Slavs"?
                              "member of the most numerous ethnic and linguistic body of peoples in Europe"

                              In your mind, is a Russian (for example) of the same ethnicity as a Macedonian? The above Brittanica article suggests they are the same. Could Brittanica be wrong?
                              Risto the Great
                              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                              Comment

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