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Old 10-21-2009, 02:50 AM   #391
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Default Goldstone rejects Israel protests

A timely discussion I suppose:
Quote:
UN human rights investigator Richard Goldstone has rejected Israel's claim that the peace process would be harmed by his report on the offensive in Gaza.

Judge Goldstone said there was no peace process at present and Israel's foreign minister did not want there to be one.

The Goldstone report, which has been endorsed by the UN Human Rights Council, accuses both Israel and Hamas militants of committing war crimes.

Mr Goldstone's remarks came in a conference call with American rabbis.

"It's a shallow, utterly false allegation," Mr Goldstone said of Israel's attempt to brand his report as an obstacle to peace.

"What peace process are they talking about? There isn't one. The Israeli foreign minister doesn't want one," Mr Goldstone said.

"If the Israeli government set up an appropriate, open investigation, it will really be the end of the matter. That's where the report would end as far as Israel is concerned," he added.

He was speaking days after Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman spoke of his belief that the Arab-Israeli conflict would not be resolved in the coming years, and people should "learn to live with it".

Palestinians and human rights groups say more than 1,400 Gazans were killed in the 22-day conflict that ended in January, but Israel puts the figure at 1,166. Thirteen Israelis, including three civilians, were killed.

In the report, Mr Goldstone calls for the war crimes allegations to be referred to the International Criminal Court at The Hague unless the parties to the Gaza war investigate them.

If the report comes before the UN Security Council, the US is expected to veto any call for ICC action against Israel.

Favourable

On Tuesday, Israel's Security Cabinet hardened the country's rejection of an independent inquiry.

Earlier reports said discussion about setting up an inquiry had been on the agenda of the meeting, which brings together seven ministers with security responsibilities.

However, an official said it was blocked by Defence Minister Ehud Barak, an architect of Israel's winter onslaught, supported by Benjamin Netanyahu, who was elected prime minister in March.

Both men have called the UN report one-sided and said it undermined Israel's right to defend itself. They argue internal investigations by the Israeli military are already dealing with a small number of violations.

"Our struggle is to delegitimize the continuing attempt to delegitimize the state of Israel. The most important sphere we need to work in is the sphere of public opinion in the democratic world," Mr Netanyahu was quoted telling the cabinet.

Foreign and justice ministry officials are reported to favour setting up an investigation in the hope of defusing an international row which is widely seen to have done damage to Israel's reputation.

Instead, ministers agreed on the establishment a legal-diplomatic panel to handle any possible war crimes prosecutions against Israel or its citizens.

Separately, Palestinian Authority President and Fatah party leader Mahmoud Abbas has been holding talks in Cairo with Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak.

It is the latest in a long-running process attempting to reach a reconciliation deal between Fatah and the other main Palestinian faction, Hamas.

Aides of Mr Abbas have accused Hamas, which runs Gaza, of shirking a commitment to sign the Egyptian-mediated agreement after Fatah signed it.

Hamas says it will sign the document as long as there are no clauses added that have not been agreed.

It said its previous request for a postponement was to give it time to study new Egyptian proposals, and to comment on the Goldstone report.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8316770.stm
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Old 10-21-2009, 02:59 AM   #392
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Thanks RtG.
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Old 10-21-2009, 04:42 AM   #393
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What war crimes?? Its funny actually the Palestinian army doesnt have one tank, have have small arms weapons. Israel has the most advanced technology, its a total mismatch
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Old 10-21-2009, 05:49 AM   #394
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I remember speaking with an Israeli guy once. He told me the Palestinian kids are paid by the kilo by Hamas to throw rocks at the Israelis. He was telling me to shock me I suppose. I just felt sorry for the kids and sorry for displaced Palestinians.

I try to think what I would do if I had no options and was looking at people living on my ancestral lands.

On the other hand, the Israeli (Russian named and fluent Russian speaker) told me that the Palestinians abandoned their land, then once the Israelis moved in and developed the land, the Palestinians demand the land back. I did not know how to take that. It may have some substance, but still sounds a little Israeli-centric to me.

Does anyone believe the Israelis are reasonable about this obvious dispute?
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:37 AM   #395
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As I have mentioned before i have nothing but great experiences and good words for Jewish people. I respect them and most of the time i wish we were like them.
When it comes to Irsael and the power they are demonstrating i think not that it's just wrong it should be made unaccaptable.But Israel is a fake country, who made it? Regarding Kosovo (another fake country)do we just blame the Albanians? Do you think they alone could have taken the Serbs?Do you think the Jews alone could have takne on the Muslim world? The US and Co played this game very clever, what best way to control the Muslim world than stick your own power in the middle of it?Now the Jews are there, their promised land and they need to stay there? Why? Because America needs them to stay there so America will arm them and make sure they are untouchable.
After the make od Israel the Jews found themselves on their promised land which i bet most regreted, that's why lots moved out. They found themselves in a situation in which Macedonia is, surrounded by countries that have nothing but full hate for them. So Isral has to defend itself. If we look at the situation now we can say easy that Israel has commited major war crimes but if we look at history we will find the right ones to blame for whhat is happening now, the ones who put Israel there. I see both people as victims here
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Old 10-21-2009, 11:38 AM   #396
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[quote=Soldier of Macedon;25283]

Pulja, you probably don't see well, check the search option at the top of the main screen, type in a keyword, then search.

When you add to someone's reputation you are automatically deducted $10,000 and a complimentary bottle of red is sent to the reputee. Either that, or nothing but a green square is added onto the reputee, one of the other admins such as Daskalot or Orovnichanec would know more about this.

And the answer of the trird question?
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Old 10-21-2009, 12:14 PM   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gj. Puleski View Post
Zdravo, Soldier,

1. I do not see here a possibility to search the site by words.
Im I right, or I don't see well.

And one more question.

2. When I add to someone's reputation, what hapens! Does he/she det a green square?

3. And tte last one: what does mean "senior member"?

Thank you in advance for the answer.
1. In the top most row of this forum just below the forum logo, there are some quick-links, one of them is "SEARCH" click on it and you will be able to search the forum.

2. You are correct, when you add to someones reputation they will get a green square as a gift from you.

3. It means that you have been a member here for some time and have a certain post count, the longer and more posts you have that is how you become a senior member.

I hope this answers all of your questions Puleski.
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Old 10-21-2009, 07:53 PM   #398
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Ти благодарам, Даскал, сега се е јасно. Поздрав!
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Old 10-21-2009, 08:34 PM   #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Risto the Great
Does anyone believe the Israelis are reasonable about this obvious dispute?
Reasonable? I think the suggestion that Palestinians left their lands willingly, and then wanted them back after the Jews developed them, is a load of garbage. Of course I am willing to be proved wrong should Shmuel, Pulja or anybody else wish to corroborate the opposite. Can they?

We discussed this issue in length a while back during the more recent Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...t=Palestinians

Back then I wrote:
Quote:
........as a Macedonian I can see similarities with both sides, and I choose no side here because it is a touchy situation. I understand the right of Israel to defend its people and state, but I also understand the Palestinians and their suffering.......
Quote:
I think Palestinian organisations (none of whom have the support of all the Palestinian people) have fallen well short in serving their people so they can realize the Palestinian state, that goes for Fatah, Hamas, etc, each have done a little, but not nearly enough. There are so many factions and divisions, they resemble the Macedonian people during the Ottoman period, and so does their desperation (See Gemidzhi). What lets them down is their extremism, I am no friend of Islamic extremism, but I don't consider myself an enemy of Islam. I understand and respect the right of the Palestinian people to have a homeland, and as difficult as it may be for themselves, they have to extend the same respect of right to the Israelis, as from 1948 Israel is a reality and there is no changing this.
Pulja, quick tell Shmuel, god forbid the Macedonians discussing such issues. That is one thing I do not agree with, the Macedonians have suffered immensely through the last couple of centuries at the hands of their neighbours and so-called 'brothers', yet the issue can be discussed freely, with sharp and opposing views. Bring up WWII and the Jews and all of a sudden it is tabboo, that is just plain wrong. I for one do not deny the suffering that the Jews went through during WWII, but I will not hold back the opinion of others, particularly when it can assist in bringing about a more complete and objective picture to the whole story.
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Old 10-21-2009, 09:59 PM   #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
Now you are pleasantly surprised that Jews are "so nice people". GP, all I want from contributors to this forum is for them to be honest. What you are saying is that your pre-conception of Jews was such that they are not nice, but now that Jankovska said they were nice ... it is a pleasant surprise to you. If I was a Jew I would be far from happy with your logic. In fact, it is almost like you are lying to us.

p.s. Sam Vaknin is in a position advising the Macedonian Government. How on Earth is it appropriate that he rope this forum in on a Nazi witch hunt based on a few comments by a few contributors? What agenda is he pursuing when he advises the Macedonian Government? Can we assume he will be insisting on Israeli products as part of the health care recommendations. He sounds extremely compromised to me. He was hardly objective when he sensationalised comments by 3 forum participants on this forum. Who knows how he does his business given his inability to weigh opinion appropriately.
Здраво, Ристо,

I suppose that for most of us who did not have closer relations to Jews, the idea we have of them is based on several stereotypical “pictures”, like:

-the one of Jews being continuously banned and pogromed throughout history;
-the one of the greedy, corrupt and manipulative Jew;
-the one of the terrble suffering of the Jews during the WW2;
-the one of the Jews occupying the home land of the Palestinians … and so on.

So, having no personal experience with Jews (and a subconsciousness formed by above mentioned stereotypes) for me it was realy a surprising news what Jankovska said about them, that they are so nice people. In the same time, for me there was another surprising news in her story – her unpleasant experience with our zemjaci Macedonians …

Regarding your second question. As far as I know, Mr. Vaknin is not advising the the Macedonian Government. He is only helping in the Steering Comitee for Advancement of the Health Sistem of RM. He is doeing a great job there and he is doeing that on voluntary basis. So, if you so much need to say something negative about him, and in the same time to keep you reputation, then please be more specific and argumented. I myself would support your criticism toward Vaknin, but it should be about something which is more than just gossip.

Last edited by Gj. Puleski; 10-21-2009 at 10:02 PM.
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