United Macedonia Diaspora

[Bratot]

I understand, that was the only stuff I could find on UMD website.

No publication is avaiable except the Voice, but nothing of some value for this thread.


My opinion is not to work against UMD, but against particular members. To reveal their intentions, given with full name and position in the organisation.

About their ideology, I really hope that such organisation is not under influence of Macedonian politicians from the Government. So, their position in the name issue - meaning compromise, to be reflected in the higher level of UMD.
Obviously, the voice of the diaspora is very important, especialy for the future goal of including Diaspora members in the Parlament.

I'm seriously concerned about the hiporisy in our government and the other political subjects.
They might have been involved in creating and atmosphere in the diaspora where the compromise could take place, but without negative implications on their political careers.
With other words, what they are trying is to produce a critical mass for a "name change".


You should quickly reorganize, reshuffle and ACT!

Think about how many Macedonians died fighting for the Bulgarians, because they believed the Bulgarirans were defending them ?! Think about that, and don't look at UMD mission statement, look at their very public "Actions" regarding the negotiations and dispute.

I also hope, that UMD fortune will not give us another MPO.

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by Bratot

On July 31st, a UMD delegation met with Macedonia's President, Prime Minister and Foreign Minister in Skopje. UMD was able to reiterate its unwavering position against any negotiations over Macedonia's name, or any considerations of changing the name of the Republic of Macedonia.

“The most recent attempt to resolve the dispute proposed by UN mediator, Ambassador Matthew Nimetz, is being stymied by Athens because it does not advance Athens’ desire to extinguish Macedonian ethnic and national consciousness,” stated UMD President Metodija A. Koloski. “Rather than constructively participating in these negotiations, Athens merely waits for proposals from Ambassador Nimetz, rejects them out of hand, and then threatens Macedonia with a continued veto of Macedonia’s entry into NATO and now it has compounded that tactic with a threat to veto Macedonia’s EU membership,” added Koloski.

In closing, Koloski stated, “It is unfortunate that this dispute cannot be resolved, but Macedonia should not allow itself to be held hostage by the intransigence and threats of the Hellenic Republic over Macedonia’s admission into NATO and the EU. Moreover, given Athens’ conduct to date, it is reasonable to conclude that the Hellenic Republic will continue to impede Macedonia’s Euro-Atlantic integration, regardless of progress in the negotiations. This situation will continue unless and until Athens successfully extorts a new name of its own choosing not just for Macedonia but also for the Macedonian people and the Macedonian language. It is the position of UMD that none of these fall under the purview of or may be dictated by the Hellenic Republic. Rather, these are the sovereign property of the Macedonian people.”

Bratot,

Now read the parts that I highlighted. In these sections, Meto Koloski legitimises the negotiations by claiming that Greece is not participating constructively and implying that it should in order for the name problem to be resolved.

By legitimising the negotiations, UMD accepts that Greece in fact has a legitimate greivance that needs to be settled.

This press release is very contradictory in itself. If you look at what you highlighted and then read what I highlighted, the contradictions are blarringly obvious. In one sentence UMD states that it is Macedonia's soverign right to choose its own name and in another it condemns Greece for not negotiating constructively, implicitly implying that Greece should negotiate contructively and thus that Macedonia should also be negotiating constructively. Legitimising the negotiations effectively legitimises Greece's claim that it has a role to play in choosing a name for Macedonia.

There are many, many more examples, some where Meto Koloski, President of UMD, states just before the NATO summit in April 2008, that the Macedonian people would supposedly accept a "political modifier" to the name. It is not the entire UMD leadership, but certainly the majority of it, whose thinking on a number of issues of national importance is highly questionable.

[Risto the Great]

Rather than constructively participating in these negotiations, Athens merely waits for proposals from Ambassador Nimetz, rejects them out of hand

This one suggests the UMD is keen to have Macedonia participate in negotiations.

Moreover, given Athens’ conduct to date, it is reasonable to conclude that the Hellenic Republic will continue to impede Macedonia’s Euro-Atlantic integration, regardless of progress in the negotiations

This one says Greece will do whatever it wants irrespective of the negotiations.

This first quote is bad as it suggests the UMD is keen to see constructive negotiation.
The second quote is merely a reality but does validate the negotiation process.

[Volk]

Why am I not surprised? The efforts to discredit the UMD have moved over here...

A few questions,

Who wins from this?
Who has something to gain?

A compromise is the dual name formula. A compromise does not have to mean name change.

Efforts to attack UMD are cannibalistic and self destructive. I am not a member, however why attack an organization that obviously aims to improve the Macedonian cause?

Organizations like this should not be 100% transparent for the sake of a few paranoid individuals because all this does is to serve the enemies that are trying to destroy us... hello...

[Vangelovski]

Volk,

Your free to blindly follow whoever you like, just don't call on the rest of us to follow your example.

[Volk]

I am not following anyone, I am standing up for an organization that is lobbying for our rights. Unless you have evidence to prove otherwise I suggest you make your real intentions transparent to everyone.

[Pelister]

Volk,

Macedonia will never win, if UMD's position regarding the name and the negotiations is allowed to continue.

For UMD compromise = progress - thats the kind of post-modern people that they are.

As far as UMD is concerned "nationalism" is a very very dirty word - and they think that they can play themselves off against the Greeks as being "fairer" or "more open to compromise". All of this suggests very strongly that UMD FULLY supports a name chance, if only Greece would get its act together.

The other problem is the way UMD represents itself. It does not represent the vast majority of Macedonians in the diaspora - or even in the West, even though "IT MARKETS ITSELF" as the Peak Body of Macedonians all over the world.

[Volk]

Pelister,

Cel na Makedonskata strana e da lici kako po konstruktivna od dvete strani (i fakticki e, so promena na znameto i ustavot). Izjavite za barane na fer kompromis se e fakticki kompromis sto bi bil dvojnata formula.

Jas vo UMD licno ne gi znam, no ne si iskazal ni edna izjava sto pokazuva ili dokazuva deka imaat ili nekoja 'tajna' misija ili pak se borat protiv narodot. Korenot na problemot e nekoj luge im gi razbiraat izjavi na UMD kako 'modarate', i celata organizacija moderate.

Toj zbor e klucen, deka site treba da licat kako moderate dur infact ne ja pominuvaat linijata sto e povrzan so nasiot identitet (toa vklucuva ime, jazik, cela istorija na nasiot narod), znaci bez ostapka na toa sto sme.

Sega dali treba Makedonija da se vkluci vo NATO kako fyrom moze tesko da se debatira i jas nekolku pati se soglasuvav pa si go promeniv misleneto. Veke vo UN sme kako fyrom ( toa nie privremeno ime), da go imame toa isto privremeno ime vo organizacija sto mozde da ni garantira (ako ili ne?) sovrenitet dali e tolku loso vo odgled sto moze da se smeni vo Makedonija....

[Vangelovski]

Volk,

All the relevant facts about UMD have been pointed out to you in the past, but you seem more interested in following the capitulatory stance that UMD and successive Macedonian Governments have followed in a vain hope that if they please their foreign masters they may be "rewarded" with something.

Now you are advocating that we join NATO under fyrom so that one day we can change it to Macedonia. As has been pointed out to you many times over, Gligorov argued the same thing when Macedonia joined the UN - that the name would be reverted back within 3 months.

These treasonous and capitulatory actions are the actions of slaves trying to please their masters, not realising that their masters have no intention of fulfilling the slaves wishes. Its been nearly 2 decades and still Macedonians pin their hopes in vain on that one last capitulation which inevitably turns into yet one more last capitulation.

What exactly do you find not "moderate" about excercising our legitimate and sovereign rights? What is "moderation" to you?

[Volk]

All the relevant facts about UMD have been pointed out to you in the past,

Are we going to play this game again? the only 'evidence' I saw was you mentioning the Maknews thread in which you had zero evidence.

If I am wrong PLEASE show me?

but you seem more interested in following the capitulatory stance that UMD and successive Macedonian Governments

Now how is preserving and defending our identity (including our name, language culture and history) capitulatory? When have i advocated otherwise?

Now you are advocating that we join NATO under fyrom so that one day we can change it to Macedonia

Read what I have written again, in my writing I was explaining the thought process that must be considered in such decision.
On that note are you advocating isolation? Should Macedonia leave all of the organizations that have admitted it under fyrom? Including the UN, WTO, IMF ? why should Nato be any different?

So is isolation what you are advocating?

What exactly do you find not "moderate" about excercising our legitimate and sovereign rights? What is "moderation" to you?

I think i explained this in my previous post but I will do so in english; I was explaining that term 'moderate' is a good thing to have. However being labelled moderate whilst not negating our fundamental rights as a people. In the case of the government and UMD calling for a fair compromise is a moderate attitude, however a compromise that does not negate our identity which could only be a dual name formula.