Toynbee gives a death blow to the chauvinism of Greece

[cultea]

Originally Posted by Epirot

1. Why do you have trouble to get the point? It's crystal clear: Arnold Toynbee who had a pro-Greek stance condemned the chauvinism of Greeks toward Macedonia. He was disgusted with the predatory goals of Greeks toward its neighbors.

2. The reason why I don't post on their forums is because I don't go to the sanitation of black waters. It's above all a matter of hygiene. They will ban you on the moment you expose something that goes against their mainstream. They are just a bunch of racists who applaud and encourage the racism of each other.

3. Here I lost you! It's not the issue whether Greek chauvinists were aware of Toynbee's existence or not. Toynbee just noticed the wild chauvinism of Greece to conquer Macedonia on the name of 'historical sentiments'

1. The small passage you posted doesn’t show disgust but it does doubt on the Greek and Bulgarian arguments. Still, he doesn’t seem favorable to your point of view on Macedonia. He doesn’t seem to suggest Alexander the Great was not Greek or Samuel was not Bulgarian. He considers them long forgotten and irrelevant to the present-day people and land. (I’m sorry I don’t know what he says in the previous or next page or what his opinion was on the Macedonian Question)

2. Still, if you read a discussion with 50 posts in another forum and come here to post the answer and your counter-arguments we can’t really follow. I’m blocked and I can’t even view this forum.

3. His expressions are not that hostile. I have no further comments because this passage has no info, just his opinion and I can’t understand or see any importance. If you could post his arguments it would be more interesting.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Cultea

He doesn’t seem to suggest Alexander the Great was not Greek or Samuel was not Bulgarian. He considers them long forgotten and irrelevant to the present-day people and land.

What does that have anything to do with it? The whole point is that he considers Greek intentions for Macedonia as chauvinistic. Just like yours. Why must you knuckleheads always harp on about something from 2000 years ago when most of your own ancestors only 200 years ago weren't speaking Greek as a native tongue? That, by the way, is a fact, and not modern fiction based ancient fiction.

[cultea]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

1. Voltron/Cultea, in nearly every thread you clowns are posting on, all we are reading is the false claim that Macedonia and her historical figures are Greek. We are well aware of the deluded positions that you hold, and we are well aware of how full of shit the both of you are. Furthermore, you are both well aware of the positions that we hold, given that we are actually Macedonians, and not Greeks, Vlachs or some Christian conglomerates with Asian ancestry, like you are.

2. I am positive that the both of you knuckleheads have read the rules of this forum and have taken note that one of them does not allow anti-Macedonian propaganda. Yet here you are, after a long spell of behaving like something that resembles 'normality', back to your old tricks again.

3. Get it through your thick skulls that this isn't the place where the ancestry of the Macedonian people is tarnished with manipulative lies, garbage and that pathetic Greek propaganda that you've both been regurgitating as of late. This is the place where the Macedonian point of view about their OWN people is given prevalence, because after all, that is their OWN history.

4. I think both of you will be going on a holiday very soon. And you won't be given any courtesy or explanation, because we have seen this sick little game that you two maggots are playing time and again from the previous maggots (or yourselves posing as alternative maggots) that have been on this forum. Quite frankly, I have not the time nor the patience to go through this cyclic stupidity once more. Ask yourselves why you're here. Is it to learn more about the real Macedonians, or to try and push through this fake 'Macedonian' trash that morons like yourselves hang on to as a geographical identity. To me, it seems like the latter. In which case, you serve no valid purpose here. The only Greek with half a brain on this forum at the moment is Agamoi Thytai, who, even though sharing similar opinions to yourselves, at least tries to respond with some sources and doesn't feel the need to continually harp on about the same trash with no substance. Or perhaps he is also going through a phase of 'normality' like you were not long ago.

1. I agree that you’re actually Macedonian and that you are not Greek. Did I claim that Macedonia’s historical figures are Greek? Which ones? I didn’t mean… you.

2. So how do you define normality?

3. Uh… OK

4. I like Agamoi Thytai very much too. But, this is not my style. I’m not interested in finding books, underlining them and posting them here. I prefer a more natural and less “professional” interaction.
Yes, every member of the forum does have a personality and a value. I’ve noticed that since most of you are from Australia you’re totally detached from the realities of Macedonia (and occasionally Europe). I live in Thessaloniki, so if you have any questions or interests about Greece I think I may be able to answer, inform you or correct you. That’s how I would generally describe my role here, but then again I’m not a robot and don’t follow any strict rules.

[Epirot]

Originally Posted by Voltron

Thats a lie, nobody ever gets banned over there. The only time your banned is if your a complete troll that posts nothing but one liners.

They do not deserve to be advocated by yourself. They're just a bunch of racists with unlimited hatred against others. They spent all the time on applauding each other stupidity, attacking the identity of others and making fallacious propaganda. Most of them are at their 30-40's, but they are disgrace not of themselves but of their families, friends and their people. All of them live in Western countries and theoretically they should be more open-minded than the rest, but that's not the case. Their racism surpasses even that of right-wing Greek circles. Maybe it sounds a little bit pessimistic but this the truth, whether you like it or not. However, hope dies last. I am sure that sooner or later, the winds of tolerance will come in Greece.

Originally posted by voltron

Even in that case your given multiple warnings. You on the other hand do not fit in that category. So instead of circle jerking with other Greek haters, go show what you got Epiroti. Show some Besa.

All of their opponents were banned without any warning. Let us do some math, shall we? According to the available statistics, "AMAC" forum has in total 15,877 posts. Meanwhile, MTO has in total 104,641 posts. That's speaks volume. AMAC is dying fast as there is no discussion because their admins have banned every serious opponent. I suspect that one day they will quarrel with one another to show who is more Greek and who's less Greek, who is traitor, and who is not!!!!

The 104, 641 posts (at least at the moment I am writing this reply) speaks about the gigantic difference between you and us.

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by Voltron

If we are to consider Ancient Macedonia to be ethnically Greek (which we do)

why would Greeks ask a Macedonian to explain how in the world is it possible for him to be Greek when he is a Macedonian?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by cultea

1. I agree that you’re actually Macedonian and that you are not Greek. Did I claim that Macedonia’s historical figures are Greek? Which ones? I didn’t mean… you.

Do you consider Alexander a historical figure of Macedonia or Greece?

So how do you define normality?

Everything opposite to the way you two jesters have been behaving here as of late.

Uh… OK

Do you need some medical attention?

I’ve noticed that since most of you are from Australia you’re totally detached from the realities of Macedonia (and occasionally Europe).

Half of our relatives live there you fool. Do you know more about Macedonia's realities than them? What realities are you talking about? That false hope of financial gain takes precedence over identity? That they need to compromise on their name to appease Greece? What realities?

I’m not a robot and don’t follow any strict rules.

You don't have to be a robot to respect the identity and history of another people, or to avoid stupid insinuations.

I live in Thessaloniki, so if you have any questions or interests about Greece I think I may be able to answer, inform you or correct you.

Yeah I know, you're the stalker from Greece who seems to know Vodenka's every move. How many more Macedonians do you spy on?

[Voltron]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Epirot

They do not deserve to be advocated by yourself. They're just a bunch of racists with unlimited hatred against others. They spent all the time on applauding each other stupidity, attacking the identity of others and making fallacious propaganda. Most of them are at their 30-40's, but they are disgrace not of themselves but of their families, friends and their people. All of them live in Western countries and theoretically they should be more open-minded than the rest, but that's not the case. Their racism surpasses even that of right-wing Greek circles. Maybe it sounds a little bit pessimistic but this the truth, whether you like it or not. However, hope dies last. I am sure that sooner or later, the winds of tolerance will come in Greece.

Im not advocating them Epirot, you came on here shooting your mouth off. Im just telling you to back up your words. There are a lot of good ppl on AMAC just as there are good ppl here on MTO. We all have are nationalistic sides to us and we should take some of the hard talk with a grain of salt. I know I did. Also, keep in mind that many of those members have been banned and then insulted once they have been outed including myself. That isnt exactly condusive to a warm climate between us.

All of their opponents were banned without any warning.

Stop lying Epirot. Nobody has ever been banned there that is a fact. I can assure you it will be civil if you decide to show up. Just go over there with your sources and give it a go.

[Voltron]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

One would have to be blind to suggest that everybody agrees with each other on this forum. Furthermore, one would have to be completely stupid if they think they can taint and negate the history of the Macedonian people and then try to claim it as difference in opinion. We don't need you to tell us the opinion of Greek chauvinists and racists. The internet is full of them, and their opinions, which are largely based on delusion, are unfortunately over-represented. This is a Macedonian forum, in case that fact slipped your mind. We are countering Greek racism, not providing it a platform. Everytime you or that 100-time recycled moron Cultea blabber on about the Macedonians and/or their history being Greek, is an insult to the Macedonian people. Keep pretending to be dumb, Voltron.

Fair enough SOM, but keep in mind that raising the racist and chauvanist card each time is getting old. I know where I am at and is the reason why I decided to take a break for a while.

That's great. Tell you're buddies at moron.com about it, you know, the one's who think you've 'capitulated' because you were able to call us Macedonians without having a nervous breakdown. Racist scum.

My buddies arent racists and neither are them over at AMAC. Its as if you are expecting us to accept your version of Macedonian history and if we dont you pull out the race card. Its just plain wrong and you use it often. That said, I respect your opinion and the way you feel. I sincerely think we can sit down a pound a few beers as if nothing happened, but at the end of the day we have our positions we feel strongly about. Anyway take care and seriously chill out. Im sure this will blow over within a few years.

[Epirot]

[quote=Voltron;108063]

Im not advocating them Epirot, you came on here shooting your mouth off. Im just telling you to back up your words. There are a lot of good ppl on AMAC just as there are good ppl here on MTO. We all have are nationalistic sides to us and we should take some of the hard talk with a grain of salt.

Time is so scant as it would be a sin to waste it speaking for some gimps. Their nationalism does not bother me at all: but their racism is turned into something very normal for them. They do deny the identity of others, distort the history as to fit to their national ambitions, behave like racists, etc. I could find until know any good people on 'AMAC' who respect the rights of other nations.

Stop lying Epirot. Nobody has ever been banned there that is a fact. I can assure you it will be civil if you decide to show up. Just go over there with your sources and give it a go

Why would I go into a swamp?! A wise proverb says: "Never wrestle with a pig in the mud—you get dirty and the pig likes it”. "AMAC" members may love wallowing in the mud and dirt but I do not. I am pretty sure that all of them often do browse the pages of MTO, so that's why I post my sources right here.

[George S.]

Voltron & cultea the macedonian ethnos was different to the greek ethnos.We are talking a different race of people.You are drawing a long bow by claiming falsely that the two are related.How could that be the greeks hated the macedonians & they wouldn't support the macedonians in their fight against the persians.The modern greek has absolutely no comnnection with the ancient macedonians ,they don't even connect with the ancient greeks.Your not going to get sympathy on these forums if you claim that BS.
Just remember your stupid behaviour what alexander said when fighting the persians he typically excluded greeks out of the fighting force what little there was & only had macedonians fighting the persians.So you can't say that it's greek glory it's macedonian only.So when some of you say that the greeks & macedonians are the same race of people you are really walking on really thin ice.Behave or your out.You should at least give us the common curtesy of showing some respect.