Who are the Slavs? - Citations and Sources

[Onur]

Originally Posted by Sovius

Onur,
Thank you for all these interesting examples of Imperialist Era pseudo-scholarship, quite impressive, really, I was wondering where all those textbooks went after Germany lost WW I.

Not sure what to make of all those decapitated human heads. Is this a popular hobby in Turkey?

I just remembered how tiresome this forum can be...

Anyway, is this a joke or you just became touchy just because i wrote as mongols to the medieval Russians?

I think you are not aware of it but there is a science branch called anthropology and a technic called facial reconstruction which gives very accurate results, tested and proved for more than a century.

[chentovist]

Onur, nice try;

Yaroslav the Wise - was a Varangian Viking Rus

Prince Andrey Bogolyubsky - His mother was a Kipchak princess, Khan Aepa's daughter.

Now look for some Slav nobility instead...

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by chentovist

Now look for some Slav nobility instead...

What is a "Slav"?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Bill77

What is a "Slav"?

Apparently it is a word that Macedonians should pretend doesn't exist. That way we can allow our enemies to have the benefit of doubt while we keep our heads in the sand. At least according to some.

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Apparently it is a word that Macedonians should pretend doesn't exist. That way we can allow our enemies to have the benefit of doubt while we keep our heads in the sand. At least according to some.

I get your linguistical point of view,
But chentovist might be implying and unintentionally misleading readers that "Slavs" to be a race or tribe.

Now what gives me that impression? He mentions Yaroslav the Wise - was a Varangian Viking Rus, Prince Andrey Bogolyubsky - His mother was a Kipchak princess (assuming these are tribe names) then in the next line chentovist asks for Slav nobility.

So i ask again and for chentovist to answer, what is a "slav" if its more than a linguistical term.

[Sovius]

Originally Posted by Onur

I just remembered how tiresome this forum can be...

Anyway, is this a joke or you just became touchy just because i wrote as mongols to the medieval Russians?

I think you are not aware of it but there is a science branch called anthropology and a technic called facial reconstruction which gives very accurate results, tested and proved for more than a century.

I think you are not aware of it but there is a science branch called population genetics and a technic called reading. The epicanthic folds that some Russians possess, these "Mongol" features of yours, are the result of long term co-existence and admixture between populations defined by both the N and R1a> Haplogroups. Go do some snowshoeing through northern Russia and Scandinavia and you'll figure it out.

I'm not sure I even know where to begin with your backwards assed views regarding Poland and Ukrainia. Are you familiar with the concept of sequential logic? Take a look at the link I just posted for Optimus Prime one page back and do a little research. Pay particular attention to where marker M458 is in relation to the Z93, Z283 and Z280 cluster. Those funny looking symbols on the bottom of the chart represent numbers and the numbers, in turn, represent the number of years before the present. Now, do a little research and see if you can find out where the source region of the M458 marker is located. Now, if Location X is the source region of Marker Z, where would Marker Y, the parent marker of Z, have to be in order to mutate into Marker Z? If you'd care to step a few markers back, it gets even more interesting.

[chentovist]

Originally Posted by Bill77

I get your linguistical point of view,
But chentovist might be implying and unintentionally misleading readers that "Slavs" to be a race or tribe.

Now what gives me that impression? He mentions Yaroslav the Wise - was a Varangian Viking Rus, Prince Andrey Bogolyubsky - His mother was a Kipchak princess (assuming these are tribe names) then in the next line chentovist asks for Slav nobility.

So i ask again and for chentovist to answer, what is a "slav" if its more than a linguistical term.

My view is that Slavs were at one time a racial group, and that in the case of Russia, the Viking Rus ruled over these Slav people. They adopted the national name of Rus over time in honour of the state-forming nation of Rus. Over time however these Slav peoples have spread out and intermingled with various peoples, and are today more of a linguistic group, rather than a racial group. I guess a similar analogy can be used for Germanic peoples, and the English for example who are a Germanic nation, and their language a Germanic language. This however does not make them any less English.

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by chentovist

My view is that Slavs were at one time a racial group, .......

Over time however these Slav peoples have spread out and intermingled with various peoples, and are today more of a linguistic group, rather than a racial group.

Interesting.

[Sovius]

Many Swedes are the descendents of colonists who were previously living in what would become known as Poland and elsewhere in Central and Eastern Europe many thousands of years ago. If the Russians were Slavs, would not the Vikings be Slavs, as well? Or is it the other way around?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by chentovist

My view is that Slavs were at one time a racial group.......

The problem I have with that interpretation is the following. If they were a unique 'racial' group' then that almost implies they spoke a language that was unrelated to other languages. However, that is not the case. Slavic languages descend from the same proto language that produced Baltic (and in my opinion Paleo-Balkan) languages. The 'Slavs' were merely peoples that descended from indigenous populations in Europe, who espoused a common identity based on a common lingua franca (this doesn't mean that all of them gave up their tribal or ethnic identities completely), most likely as a bulwark against Gothic, Hunnic and Avar encroachment. Many of those peoples already spoke languages that would be considered as kindred to the Slavic lingua franca, before they adopted the latter.