Macedonia - Where to Now?

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  • Gocka
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2012
    • 2306

    #91
    There is no lesser of 2 evils, evil is evil. Also the reason this has happened is because eastern Macedonia is predominately SDSM to my understanding.

    Also just because a bunch of businesses were closed doesn't mean there was no reason for it. Lets face it how many Macedonians follow regulations to the letter of the law? Now if that law is being applied even handidly, well then I have one word MACEDONIA.

    Its unfortunate that this isn't used as a tactic to stifle the shiptari (I know its not fair but neither is being a terrorist) but instead only Macedonians get the stick. Same shit different day/

    Originally posted by Macedonian View Post
    I few things I heard very recently.

    Last week about 400 small business closed down over a two day period...mostly in Skopje and Eastern Macedonia, due to the workings of the 'inspekcija'. They were hit with fines from 200-3000 euros. The vast majority, if not all, belonged to ethnic Macedonians. That's a huge number and seeing that SME's are the backbone of the economy in regards to employment, it's a catastrophic blow.

    A few days ago, it was announced that 25% of the adult population have Bulgarian passports. I dare say that the figure is larger than that.

    In the last few months, Macedonian TV has stopped airing film clips of Macedonian artists. The public reason was that it was too expensive to publicise/market their music.

    So where does it all lead to?

    Less opportunity for the populace to earn an honest living.

    More people that Bulgaria can declare as Macedonians and more to leave for the sake of 'pechalba'.

    The population, particularly the youth, has less exposure to our own music/culture. They see mostly the BS Bulgar clips or Serb and Bosnian items.

    Eastern Macedonia, from Veles onwards, go jade stapot za celata Makedonija. Yes there needs to be inspection and control, however keep it uniform and make it apply to the whole country evenly. Not just via a draconian method upon Macedonians. The shiptari don't even see inspectors in Western Macedonia.

    These 'pichki' called VMRO-DPMNE are the lesser of two evils??? I don't think so. Perhaps they are there to kill the people softly! They call a press conference and announce a new 'Industrial Zone' and claim so and so will build a factory and employ folk. How many have been talked about and how many have come into fruition?

    Comment

    • George S.
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 10116

      #92
      Macedonia is more complicated than it already is.The Macedonians still haven't found their way out.
      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
      GOTSE DELCEV

      Comment

      • Redsun
        Member
        • Jul 2013
        • 409

        #93
        Hello Gocka

        When I read Macedonians I think of Macedonians globally as a whole and not just the Macedonians in Macedonia

        You said "when we speak about both groups at the same time we usually call them Macedonians and ourselves the diaspora". You gave me the answer I wanted.

        Thank you Gocka, I must apologize for taking your time and everyone elses. Sorry for taking this off topic I didn't intend to.

        I wouldn't want to be called anything other than Macedonian.

        The reason I asked this was because a friend and I have been looking at this forum for the last two years long before I became a member we came across a thread were there were many positive posts for movement in Macedonia we were happy to read these until we reached a post where Macedonians were referred to as lazy with their hands out for money arrogant and don't want to work. My friend went ballistic he took it personally and couldn't understand why anyone would say this. His explosion was massive I didn't come back to this site until couple of months later. I read new posts on the thread and I realized this was directed at the Macedonians in Macedonia. I got to show him and explain the situation, he understands now but doesn't show that strong will for change. At the time we didn't even know what diaspora was.

        I'm 100% Macedonian, I once posted an idiot post in the thread concerning Macedonian Military jumping off to the Bulgarians. Is this why you asked? My Forefathers fought with the Bulgarians. I had always felt grateful towards the Bulgarians, yes my knowledge was so bad I thought they were great I thought Macedonia had allies. Exact same sickening belief my friend (that same friend mentioned above) has towards the Serbs, I was fooled up until I read the truth. I'm glad this forum exists without it I would be living a lie.

        Thanks again.

        Comment

        • Gocka
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2012
          • 2306

          #94
          Wow, where to start, I have so many questions and comments.

          First, please dont put yourself down, all that is important to us is that you are willing to learn. We understand that the propaganda against our people is strong and that there are all sorts of issues we have to overcome. I dont want to hear you keep referring to yourself as stupid or this and that. You were smart enough to be honest and act in a humble manner, this is much much more then the average person.

          Now I have a few questions if you dont mind.

          Where are you from? Australia, USA?

          Where from Macedonia do your parents come from? The Republic, Aegean Macedonia (currently in modern day greece), or Pirin Macedonia (in modern day bulgaria)

          Have you ever been to The Republic of Macedonia or any of the occupied parts?

          Now a few comments. First the bulgarians, there propaganda is very strong because their culture is similar to ours but do not be fooled, they were and are one of our biggest enemies. One of our most famous revolutionaries Jane Sandanski was know a a slayer of Bulgarians, on his grave it says Jane killed by the hands of the bulgarians. They always wanted to annex Macedonia to bulgaria and still do. If you go to the history section of the forum you will find man many threads about bulgarian propaganda both old and new.

          Trust me when I say to you that your forefather never ever fought together with the bulgarians, in fact the exact opposite, they fought against them, they were one of our biggest enemies. They are one of the biggest reasons why the Macedonian revolutionary movement failed, they sabotaged it at every step.

          If you would like to talk one on one with out cluttering this specific thread please send me a private message and I will answer any questions you may have and point you to the right places on this forum where you can read more. I can give you some background and basics so that you dont feel so out of place. We are all Macedonians regardless of where we come from. We are here to help.

          Originally posted by Redsun View Post
          Hello Gocka

          When I read Macedonians I think of Macedonians globally as a whole and not just the Macedonians in Macedonia

          You said "when we speak about both groups at the same time we usually call them Macedonians and ourselves the diaspora". You gave me the answer I wanted.

          Thank you Gocka, I must apologize for taking your time and everyone elses. Sorry for taking this off topic I didn't intend to.

          I wouldn't want to be called anything other than Macedonian.

          The reason I asked this was because a friend and I have been looking at this forum for the last two years long before I became a member we came across a thread were there were many positive posts for movement in Macedonia we were happy to read these until we reached a post where Macedonians were referred to as lazy with their hands out for money arrogant and don't want to work. My friend went ballistic he took it personally and couldn't understand why anyone would say this. His explosion was massive I didn't come back to this site until couple of months later. I read new posts on the thread and I realized this was directed at the Macedonians in Macedonia. I got to show him and explain the situation, he understands now but doesn't show that strong will for change. At the time we didn't even know what diaspora was.

          I'm 100% Macedonian, I once posted an idiot post in the thread concerning Macedonian Military jumping off to the Bulgarians. Is this why you asked? My Forefathers fought with the Bulgarians. I had always felt grateful towards the Bulgarians, yes my knowledge was so bad I thought they were great I thought Macedonia had allies. Exact same sickening belief my friend (that same friend mentioned above) has towards the Serbs, I was fooled up until I read the truth. I'm glad this forum exists without it I would be living a lie.

          Thanks again.

          Comment

          • Macedonian
            Junior Member
            • Oct 2013
            • 36

            #95
            Originally posted by Gocka View Post
            There is no lesser of 2 evils, evil is evil. Also the reason this has happened is because eastern Macedonia is predominately SDSM to my understanding.

            Also just because a bunch of businesses were closed doesn't mean there was no reason for it. Lets face it how many Macedonians follow regulations to the letter of the law? Now if that law is being applied even handidly, well then I have one word MACEDONIA.

            Its unfortunate that this isn't used as a tactic to stifle the shiptari (I know its not fair but neither is being a terrorist) but instead only Macedonians get the stick. Same shit different day/
            Most of Eastern Macedonia is VMRO. Generally, only Strumica is an SDSM stronghold.

            Yes of course there are reasons for however the fines are disproportionate to the incomes earn't.

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              #96
              Originally posted by Vangelovski
              How do we convince them that they should exercise their rights and their freedom?
              Very few people are prepared to exercise their rights and their freedoms to the extent required in which those rights and freedoms would be secured for the long term. Now, this doesn't mean that there aren't people in Macedonia who are patriotic and who know that the current situation is undesirable. But they themselves aren't willing to do anything about it. And even if they were willing, they feel that they would receive little support from their peers, or would be somehow pressured into backing down by others that are affiliated with the ruling political party of the day. They are so concerned about scrambling for the scraps and sucker deals thrown at them by their government and their lackeys, that they've completely overlooked their right to something better. I don't think it has to do with a lack of care. It has to do with a lack of drive to take the necessary steps. Phoenix summed it up well with his earlier statement:
              Originally posted by Phoenix
              At the moment, those in the Republic have just enough, (they're not starving) so they won't rebel against anything (i.e. government or philosophies )but are lacking enough, (particularly money and materialism) that they really don't give a fuck about anything that would be deemed 'important' to those of us in the diaspora.
              Take this "Ramo" character, for example. I am sure he is not a bad guy in person, but he is like so many other Macedonians in the republic. They get overly sensitive when Macedonians from the diaspora - those who have only the best interest at heart for Macedonia - suggest ways of improving their situation. Perhaps it's because they haven't done anything themselves to better their situation, and don't wish to be reminded of it. The suggestion that Macedonians from the diaspora don't have a right to speak about the situation in Macedonia is just a pathetic excuse by some weak Macedonians from the republic who hold some sort of a stupid grudge. These people are being deliberately ignorant of the fact that most of us have family ties there, and that what happens in Macedonia has repercussions for Macedonians across the globe (case in point, that stupid ventilator and acronym which are imposed on all Macedonians because of the cowardice of certain Macedonians within the republic).

              I had many conversations about these issues with my relatives while I was in Macedonia earlier this year. Macedonians are in need of change, and they know it. However, ultimately, there needs to be a movement from within. The problem is finding those few brave souls who are prepared to make sacrifices for the greater and common good, and have the courage to initiate the struggle. Once that is overcome, I am positive that there will be many people in Macedonia who will follow and support them. My concern is, with the way things are, by the time this happens (if it ever does) it may be too late.
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Macedonian
                Junior Member
                • Oct 2013
                • 36

                #97
                Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                Very few people are prepared to exercise their rights and their freedoms to the extent required in which those rights and freedoms would be secured for the long term. Now, this doesn't mean that there aren't people in Macedonia who are patriotic and who know that the current situation is undesirable. But they themselves aren't willing to do anything about it. And even if they were willing, they feel that they would receive little support from their peers, or would be somehow pressured into backing down by others that are affiliated with the ruling political party of the day. They are so concerned about scrambling for the scraps and sucker deals thrown at them by their government and their lackeys, that they've completely overlooked their right to something better. I don't think it has to do with a lack of care. It has to do with a lack of drive to take the necessary steps. Phoenix summed it up well with his earlier statement:

                Take this "Ramo" character, for example. I am sure he is not a bad guy in person, but he is like so many other Macedonians in the republic. They get overly sensitive when Macedonians from the diaspora - those who have only the best interest at heart for Macedonia - suggest ways of improving their situation. Perhaps it's because they haven't done anything themselves to better their situation, and don't wish to be reminded of it. The suggestion that Macedonians from the diaspora don't have a right to speak about the situation in Macedonia is just a pathetic excuse by some weak Macedonians from the republic who hold some sort of a stupid grudge. These people are being deliberately ignorant of the fact that most of us have family ties there, and that what happens in Macedonia has repercussions for Macedonians across the globe (case in point, that stupid ventilator and acronym which are imposed on all Macedonians because of the cowardice of certain Macedonians within the republic).

                I had many conversations about these issues with my relatives while I was in Macedonia earlier this year. Macedonians are in need of change, and they know it. However, ultimately, there needs to be a movement from within. The problem is finding those few brave souls who are prepared to make sacrifices for the greater and common good, and have the courage to initiate the struggle. Once that is overcome, I am positive that there will be many people in Macedonia who will follow and support them. My concern is, with the way things are, by the time this happens (if it ever does) it may be too late.
                Absolutely correct SOM. Not much a clearer explanation is needed which explains the situation of our brethren and the situation they have left themselves in. The movement from within, I feel, needs perhaps a 'spark' from the outside. Other nations have had that external spark which has ignited a flame and the result today being strong and well established/engrained nation states. That spark however, must have a number of sides, a number of faces, take multiple paths congruently toward the aim of reaching critical mass in the one direction. Time is of essence, this is true.

                Comment

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