United Macedonia Diaspora

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Volk
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 894

    There are many Diaspora organisations that oppose the Framework Agreement and the Interim Accord - from the very begining - some of them are in your own backyard (Sydney and now Canberra).
    There is a difference between opposing and actually engaging against its implementation. Dont think to many have done this besides SMK at the beginning.
    Makedonija vo Srce

    Comment

    • Volk
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 894

      Tom,

      read my post again, if you have trouble understanding it try and learn something new about what our oppressors are doing to eliminate us from the face of the earth. Our cause is bigger than your ego
      Makedonija vo Srce

      Comment

      • Vangelovski
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 8531

        Volk,

        I can only reply with what I already said:

        Rather than trying to convince everyone to accept your defeatist view of the world, why don't you learn something about how (and why) Macedonians inside ethno-historic Macedonia and in the diaspora are 'fighting' for human rights.
        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

        Comment

        • Vangelovski
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 8531

          Volk, you should get around more. Just because you've been sleeping, don't assume everyone else has as well.
          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

          Comment

          • Rogi
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 2343

            Tom, please do share.

            I'm yet to hear of any organisation in the Diaspora (or anywhere) other than the WMC having done anything proactive in terms of getting rid of the Framework Agreement. I know that just about every single organisation does oppose it, but nobody is actively working on that - as far as I know. I'm not saying there is none, I just haven't heard of anyone doing anything. I'd love to be wrong and I'd love to hear what has been done, in fact I'm sure most of us on this forum would and would offer our help in whatever way required.

            As far as I am aware, even the organisation "Dostoinstvo" which I hold in the highest esteem, has still not made such calls for abolishment of the Framework Agreement. Though, personally I'm hoping that they lead the way on the ground for it.

            Comment

            • Vangelovski
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 8531

              Originally posted by Rogi View Post
              Tom, please do share.

              I'm yet to hear of any organisation in the Diaspora (or anywhere) other than the WMC having done anything proactive in terms of getting rid of the Framework Agreement. I know that just about every single organisation does oppose it, but nobody is actively working on that - as far as I know. I'm not saying there is none, I just haven't heard of anyone doing anything. I'd love to be wrong and I'd love to hear what has been done, in fact I'm sure most of us on this forum would and would offer our help in whatever way required.

              As far as I am aware, even the organisation "Dostoinstvo" which I hold in the highest esteem, has still not made such calls for abolishment of the Framework Agreement. Though, personally I'm hoping that they lead the way on the ground for it.
              Rogi,

              You'll have to get the exact details off Aleksandrov, but MOCS in Sydney was lobbying against both the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement. I believe they also made considerable financial contributions to the WMC in this specific regard.

              More importantly, many organisations, like MOCS and Alexander's Descendant's, actively educate Macedonians about the destructiveness of those agreements, unlike UMD which legitimises them and calls on our people to accept them as "reality".
              Last edited by Vangelovski; 05-15-2009, 12:44 AM.
              If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

              The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

              Comment

              • Volk
                Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 894

                uste eden prdez vo vozduh!
                Makedonija vo Srce

                Comment

                • Vangelovski
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 8531

                  Originally posted by Volk View Post
                  uste eden prdez vo vozduh!
                  As oppossed to your "consistent" and "principled" stand, where you disapear as soon as someone shows you up for what you are?

                  You still havn't told us how we need to submit and what will happen to us if we do not submit.

                  For someone who calls themselves "Volk" and has a picture of military personnel as his avatar, you sure are a subservient fellow...
                  Last edited by Vangelovski; 05-15-2009, 01:17 AM.
                  If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                  The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15658

                    Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                    I can tell you that everyone behind UMD for example believes the Framework Agreement is treacherous.

                    However, UMD as an organisation has not declared to work against it nor to get rid of it, rather it has been accepted.
                    Rogi, based on your observation above, we can only then assume that the UMD feels it is the Diaspora that wants the Framework Agreement. Even though the leaders of UMD personally regard the Agreement as trecherous.

                    What you say about the UMD sentiment in relation to the Ohrid Agreement is quite probably true, but I find this attitude disturbing.

                    If a group of people has common beliefs and together form an organisation, surely their contributions and agenda will be questionable if they are unable to do something about what is of a major concern to all of them. In fact, the same thing can be said about Gruevski and Co. You know they are all for Macedonia etc. but do not want to be seen as crazy nationalists in the eyes of the world .... so they need to tone it down .... whilst they sell our country to the highest bidder in the back rooms.
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Vangelovski
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 8531

                      Rogi,

                      I disagree with your assessment that "everyone" behind UMD believes the Framework Agreement is treasonous - the majority of its Board members (not you) actually support it whole-heartedly and legitimise and celebrate it in their press releases, basing Macedonia's "success" as a multi-ethnic country on that very agreement.
                      If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                      The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                      Comment

                      • Bratot
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2855

                        I have a question now, since you all put it perfectly in the text and your posts and you are aware about their wrong policy for the cause, than what are you gonna do about it?


                        Or...this will be only a forum blabing?
                        The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                        Comment

                        • Pelister
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 2742

                          Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                          I have a question now, since you all put it perfectly in the text and your posts and you are aware about their wrong policy for the cause, than what are you gonna do about it?


                          Or...this will be only a forum blabing?
                          I believe that a Citizen has the option of taking certain individuals in the government to the high court, specifically in relation to those individuals negotiating to put restrictions on the use of the term "Macedonia". This clearly, violates every limitation and article of the Macedonian Constitution.

                          The leadership needs an exist strategy. It also needs to be informed about how it can improve its foreign relations, and be aware of the possibilities and options available to it in terms of securing recognition in various international organizations. Each organization requires a different strategy ...etc.

                          Comment

                          • Vangelovski
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 8531

                            Bratot,

                            People need to point out to the UMD leadership that their policies are a disaster and that they are damaging the cause - or at least the cause which seeks self-determination and human rights for the Macedonian people. UMD, has a different cause in mind.

                            I post on here in the hope that I will save at least one Macedonian from falling prey to ideas that damage the cause purported by morally and intellectually corrupt political careerists.
                            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                            Comment

                            • Rogi
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 2343

                              This is where it goes back to my initial argument about the absolute necessity of defining the Macedonian cause.

                              Comment

                              • Bratot
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 2855

                                You have to place the critics loudly enough.

                                There should be a open challenge debate and to see who is who in all this case.

                                If you are not able to make a change inside UMD, maybe it's time to form another one.
                                The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X