Macedonia - Where to Now?

[ramo]

Na zena ti slobodno moze takvi zalopojki da i zboruvas. Ti si edna obicna kukavica . Nit od siptar mi e strav ni od liglovci sto mislat deka mozat da se mesaat vo makedonija. Gledam si izmesal zeni sestri se po spisok da ti gi rabotat i crnci i siptari tvoite od siptarski secen alat da ne stanat. Nit nekoj ke te bara tebe nit tie sto razmisluvaat kako tebe.

Mrsul kukavicki, vo edna recenica mesha sestri majki i kolne, a vo druga mi "podaval raka". Ako ima 1 posto kako tebe od emigracijata mnogu e.

Ama dobro, prodolzete, jas si imam kaj da izbegam, ti nemas kaj da ojs mameto tvoje

This is only to support my thesis about the retarded way of thinking of some people. Some defective person is calling us cowards and the only thing he thinks is how to escape somewhere.

[Risto the Great]

Maybe it was better to answer on private message because i see some people are sensitive for being rude and cheeky towards us.

The situation in macedonia is a mess. You do not have strong skills for deduction i guess.

OK, even better, you are one of the ones in Macedonia who thinks only you are allowed to determine your fate. (HINT: You have failed up until now). Glad you agree the situation in Macedonia is a mess.

I am of the belief that holding your hand and telling you everything will be ok is utter bullshit.

Maybe we in the Diaspora do not really know what is going on. Maybe we still hope Macedonia can be the homeland of Macedonians. I hope you don't interpret me as being rude or cheeky.

You have a bunch of people here who are eager to see Macedonia prosper and be the true homeland of Macedonians. And you pull your inner bitch out and suggest we are not qualified. Yet you just loved taking Badinter's advice (You definitely did, your constitution confirms this). It seems you will do anything anyone tells you to do, except if it is Macedonians.

How do you say "ramo" in Albanian? Oh, I found it "sup". Perhaps you can write it 3 ways on your forehead.

[ramo]

OK, even better, you are one of the ones in Macedonia who thinks only you are allowed to determine your fate. (HINT: You have failed up until now). Glad you agree the situation in Macedonia is a mess.

I am of the belief that holding your hand and telling you everything will be ok is utter bullshit.

Maybe we in the Diaspora do not really know what is going on. Maybe we still hope Macedonia can be the homeland of Macedonians. I hope you don't interpret me as being rude or cheeky.

You have a bunch of people here who are eager to see Macedonia prosper and be the true homeland of Macedonians. And you pull your inner bitch out and suggest we are not qualified. Yet you just loved taking Badinter's advice (You definitely did, your constitution confirms this). It seems you will do anything anyone tells you to do, except if it is Macedonians.

How do you say "ramo" in Albanian? Oh, I found it "sup". Perhaps you can write it 3 ways on your forehead.

The first bold is the only valid point so far.

The second bold. It is same like saying "Americans loved being under surveillance by the government" , almost none protested. My point is that, you can write bullshit and provoke with Badinter, but the reality is that nobody could do anything, Macedonia was threatened by the western countries by land strike if we did not fulfill the siptar demands and only that is valid not your provocative and false posts. We took part in defending the country not some diaspora scum (not speaking generally) like the one that cursed in the post above me, at the same time pretending to be helpful.

[Risto the Great]

You clearly failed in defending the country. (Not the Diaspora scum).

Exactly how was Macedonia threatened by the Western countries? Please elaborate because I would like to see how far apart myth is from reality in your (clearly highly qualified) mind.

Imagine if the Western countries said, "listen to us or else we will give the ethnic Albanians final say on anything to do with Macedonia's identity and we will even make your defence minister an ethnic Albanian. Your Baba would have even gone to war.

But no, this "incident" in 2001 showed the will of the people. Deep down, I think everyone ultimately gets what they deserve if they are not willing to fight.

[Risto the Great]

Ramo, why don't you have a go at this instead of getting so defensive:

How do we convince them that they have rights? How do we convince them that as individuals and as a group, they deserve their freedom? How do we convince them that they should exercise their rights and their freedom? On the flip side, how do we convince them that they have responsbilities? That they need to work for their rights and their freedoms, both as individuals and collectively? And where does this push need to come from - from within Macedonia or the Diaspora?

Clearly you believe Macedonia is a mess.
You do not believe the Diaspora should interfere.
Do you want change?
How?

[ramo]

You clearly failed in defending the country. (Not the Diaspora scum).

Exactly how was Macedonia threatened by the Western countries? Please elaborate because I would like to see how far apart myth is from reality in your (clearly highly qualified) mind.

Imagine if the Western countries said, "listen to us or else we will give the ethnic Albanians final say on anything to do with Macedonia's identity and we will even make your defence minister an ethnic Albanian. Your Baba would have even gone to war.

But no, this "incident" in 2001 showed the will of the people. Deep down, I think everyone ultimately gets what they deserve if they are not willing to fight.

1.My family gave a few soldiers in the conflict in the 2001. I was underage at 2001, but i can say "we" because of that fact. The diaspora scum that started mixing family in forum (which is the most difficult insult in Macedonia) was sitting far from Macedonia and he imagines that he can tell me today how i should think or make my actions in the republic. NO.

2.Luckily there are still a lot of Macedonians in the republic that not every second thought of theirs is about escaping if something difficult happens.

3.I expressed wrong the land invasion but it is not a myth. The Western countries threatened with embargo and total isolation of Macedonia if we did not fix their demands or use non-proportional force against the terrorists. That is a fact. The land invasion i mentioned as comparison with the threat to Serbia if they do not stop their military actions against the siptar in Kosovo. The albanians got a lot more that i imagined but we were out of options, we had some terrible politicians etc. The Macedonians told their opinion when they were close to taking over the parliament building after the Americans evacuated the defeated siptars from aracinovo.

You the diaspora guys are probably upset because you have a strong feeling that albanians in macedonia are getting a lot more than they should (i also think that) and you are annoyed by the fact that the Macedonians in the republic are not doing what you 1000-miles away want them to do. I think that you should be upset and i also think that no Macedonian from the republic should give a damn about how you feel.

Macedonians have a great saying about this situation . "100 стапа по туѓ грб не болат".

[ramo]

Ramo, why don't you have a go at this instead of getting so defensive:



Clearly you believe Macedonia is a mess.
You do not believe the Diaspora should interfere.
Do you want change?
How?

First of all. Nobody can come to your house and tell you what to do, how to think, what actions to take next.

The diaspora can interfere, can make lobby groups, can support schools, education if they want. They can not say, "sit there in the republic, make more children, live with 150 euro per month but never give up on your name , never take bulgarian passport, even if you have to die for food". I am the last that will accept name change, but if you can not feed your family you start to look different options. Not sure how many of you can understand that.

Third . Everyone wants change for better, there is a critical mass and on some next elections people will tell their opinion. The problem is the lack of good political parties that's why the communists and dpmne succeed to rule for so many years.

The change will come within few years. we only need more money for lobists, and improve the unemployment a little bit.

[Risto the Great]

The change will come within few years. we only need more money for lobists, and improve the unemployment a little bit.

That is it in a nutshell. Thanks for that. In other words, Macedonia is lost already.

[Vangelovski]

I just remembered why we haven't broached this topic in such long time - the Gligorovisti think they can control public debate and decide who is and who is not allowd to comment on Macedonia.

Ramo, because the diaspora lives in successful countries they are ultimately much more qualified to provide suggestions than Macedonians from the republic on vast range of topics, except perhaps how to lose your human dignity (and all that entails) and still be deluded enough to live like your on top of the world.

You agree that Macedonia is a mess. Obviously the Macedonians in Macedonia are incapable of fixing it - they just like to blame others for what they are ultimately responsible for.

The question I posed was how can this mess be fixed and where should the initiative come from - from inside or outside of Macedonia? Leave you hissy fits aside and focus on the substance of the thread.

[Vangelovski]

That is it in a nutshell. Thanks for that. In other words, Macedonia is lost already.

That's the Grand Strategy RtG. All will be well..soon.

[Risto the Great]

1.My family gave a few soldiers in the conflict in the 2001. I was underage at 2001, but i can say "we" because of that fact. The diaspora scum that started mixing family in forum (which is the most difficult insult in Macedonia) was sitting far from Macedonia and he imagines that he can tell me today how i should think or make my actions in the republic. NO.

I was actively involved in generating support for Macedonia during 2001. We were told to fuck off and that Macedonia could handle the situation. The Macedonians failed miserably. They have not handled anything well.

I'll assume you didn't lose anyone close to you in 2001.

I'll also assume the soldiers from your family barely gave a whimper about the amnesty offered to the ethnic Albanian war terrorists or the new ethnic Albanians defense minister.

2.Luckily there are still a lot of Macedonians in the republic that not every second thought of theirs is about escaping if something difficult happens.

Please don't equate them with being heroes or something. In fact, I think they are probably the least likely to do anything at all.

3.I expressed wrong the land invasion but it is not a myth. The Western countries threatened with embargo and total isolation of Macedonia if we did not fix their demands or use non-proportional force against the terrorists. That is a fact. The land invasion i mentioned as comparison with the threat to Serbia if they do not stop their military actions against the siptar in Kosovo. The albanians got a lot more that i imagined but we were out of options, we had some terrible politicians etc. The Macedonians told their opinion when they were close to taking over the parliament building after the Americans evacuated the defeated siptars from aracinovo.

Another embargo threat. I can feel a new(er) flag coming real soon. Do you like twin headed eagles? I can't wait to hear the FYROMIANS tell us that the 2 headed eagle is in fact of Macedonian significance. It seems it will only be a matter of time.

Macedonia is not Serbia. Don't mix them up. Very different situations.

You the diaspora guys are probably upset because you have a strong feeling that albanians in macedonia are getting a lot more than they should (i also think that) and you are annoyed by the fact that the Macedonians in the republic are not doing what you 1000-miles away want them to do. I think that you should be upset and i also think that no Macedonian from the republic should give a damn about how you feel.

Just because we are right does not mean anything. I agree with you. However, it should mean a lot more to people like you. Yet it simply does not because your (collective) actions have done nothing for the betterment of Macedonia

Macedonians have a great saying about this situation . "100 стапа по туѓ грб не болат".

Macedonians have a saying for everything. Perhaps if they talked less in "FYROM" and did something for themselves, we would be more supportive. But all I hear is excuses about why they are victims.

Your solution is to get some more lobbyists and have some more employment.

1. Lobbyists would need to be able to influence the media and politicians because they can effectively mobilise large segments of the population: NO CHANCE
2. More employment: ONLY IF YOU SUCK DPmNE COCK

Good luck with that.

I think (for such a young guy) you are already learning how to make excuses. It means the next generation will be a bunch of victims as well. I hope you have friends with better ideals.

[George S.]

you would think the youth of today would think in a positive way.No i'm deeply disappointed.THe youth of today will let us down. When we the diaspora need to count on the youth then we are just let down.They are ungreatfull.It's all too ugly & negative.You cannot empower someone who is already predetermined to resist.If the rest of the youth is like you guys make out to be.by your standards Macedonia is finished.If you are that negative & dissolussioned wh bother wasting your time to comment.You must hate yourself too much.
A lot of things have gone arse up for Macedonia.You got a minority asking for literally secession rights.You got politicians aiding & abetting of surrendering more Macedonian sovereign rights.If we can't count on the youth of today who can we count on.?Or do you want capitulation & compromise of our country?

[Gocka]

Na zena ti slobodno moze takvi zalopojki da i zboruvas. Ti si edna obicna kukavica . Nit od siptar mi e strav ni od liglovci sto mislat deka mozat da se mesaat vo makedonija. Gledam si izmesal zeni sestri se po spisok da ti gi rabotat i crnci i siptari tvoite od siptarski secen alat da ne stanat. Nit nekoj ke te bara tebe nit tie sto razmisluvaat kako tebe.

Mrsul kukavicki, vo edna recenica mesha sestri majki i kolne, a vo druga mi "podaval raka". Ako ima 1 posto kako tebe od emigracijata mnogu e.



This is only to support my thesis about the retarded way of thinking of some people. Some defective person is calling us cowards and the only thing he thinks is how to escape somewhere.

It doesn't support shit, the shit that you are full of. You know exactly what I meant. None of us plan to run anywhere, we are the ones willing to fight willing to help, even though we unlike you are not dependent on Macedonia. If it all goes to hell and Macedonia doesn't exist anymore you will be the one that has no where to go, that is why we get so upset at the lack of progress. You dont even count us as Macedonians, and we are not dependent on Macedonia yet we are the ones trying the hardest to bring about positive change, POSITIVE CHANGE FOR YOU. We have nothing to benefit except for pride. You will be the one to benefit most form positive change in the Republic not us.

You are the one proving our thesis, that all you people really want is money, you even said it outright just above. You dont want to change the constitution or regain your dignity, you just want money. If it wasn't for the diaspora most of you wouldn't even live off 150 a month it would be more like 50, half of Macedonia is supported by diaspora family members.

Also no one threatened or mixed in your family, this proves that you are playing dumb on purpose. When the shiptari take over your whole country your family will be in jeopardy, not mine, which is why its mind boggling that I am willing to do more then you are.

Just admit it, the only thing that really bothers you is the jealousy, you are jealous that most of us make more in a week then you do in a year, and because of that you hate us. This is the only thing that really matters to you and most of your kind, we are not worthy of Macedonia unless we make a 150 euros a month right?

There is no point of even speaking with people like you. You have no logical basis for the things you say, only half baked excuses which have no real value or validity.

I had a similar experience to RTG in 2001, we were ready to help, send money, help the army buy weapons, bring in foreign military advisers, and we got a big fat fuck you from some pricks like you.

Insult after insult we still wake up everyday and just want to help and make Macedonia a better place for all Macedonians.

In the end most of the diaspora wont even live in Macedonia but we still want all of you to be better off, have more freedom and be more prosperous. So tell me who is the scum here? Do you want me to do better in life? DO you want me to be more prosperous? No you probably dont, you are jealous of me and resent me, but I want you to be even more successful than me. Are you willing to give your time and your money to me? No, but I am willing to give mine to you. So who is the scum?

Maybe you are too young to understand, maybe your surroundings and your circumstances blind you but here is your chance to learn, about the diaspora, about Macedonia, and maybe we can learn something from you as well.

You resent me for who I am, even before I spoke to you, you already had something against me, I only dislike you for the fact that you resent me. So tell me how that's fair? Will discriminating against your own people help your cause, will it make your life any better? Who else will help you if not us? Why is it only us that you dont want to listen to? So many questions very few answers.

And yes I still extend my hand to you, all it takes is your willingness, despite your insults, and despite mine, I am willing to put everything behind us in order for a better Macedonia. That is the difference between us, all you want to do is drive a wedge between us, while I just want us to come to terms with the reality of Macedonia and work together to make it better.

We dont want to pull strings, we would much rather support you and help you pull the strings, but if you are unwilling to do it yourself, then we feel obligated to do it somehow.

We dont want you to go to war, or give your life, we do not want you to do anything that we would not do ourselves. All we want is for you to show a little ambition and begin to go in the right direction, at the moment its as simple as speaking the truth about what is going on and speaking against everything that is wrong.

The disproportionate privileges that Albanians get.

The shameless acceptance of the Bulgarian identity for profit (you call them passports)

Corruption/Nepotism

All the little but significant issues in the Republic. All we want is for you and the rest of the republic to begin to speak out against these things, then we will do everything in our power to support and back you. With that will come change.

Since you are a fan of old sayings I have one for you too.

Ako ne zaplacit bebeto ne znajs deka mu se jadit.

Until you begin to speak out against all that ales the country, no one will do anything and nothing will change.

[George S.]

clearly we are dealing with the wrong crowd as they don't want the freedom that is sought after with a revolution.We are simply wasting our time.They would want "Lobbyists" to work on them,They don't want any input from the diaspora at all as if we got no rights as such.We do have rights that our own kind doesn't recognize us.Think about how nationalism has been ditched like thrown out with the bathwater.They don't want change or revolution.THey give up before they begin.
All we are getting MORE OF THE SAME sound familiar.

[julie]

Ramo, it is people like you within RoM that are so typical of the woe is me slave mentality. Only Macedonians in Macedonia HATE their disapora so much - you are a bunch of elitist wannabes, you cry woe is me at the drop of a hat, expect our money and handouts and insult us at every tiurn. And is the disgust I feel as a Macedonian how our diaspora gets so divided by its own people.

You see buddy, I have EVERY right to be involved you are playing with MY MACEDONIAN name - how about abusing the farking shit out of ALbanians you disgraceful pathetic piece of garbage, you are not worthy of having the name Macedonian, I am not sucking up to heroes like YOU who are so BIG and ALMIGHTY in denigrating MACEDONIANS - hey heres a thought energy spent in your hatred go and shove it up a shiptar or greek - and embreace your diaspora helping you, you pathetic idiot instead of denigrating your own people.