The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece

[TrueMacedonian]

Something I think this topic could us:

[makedonche]

TM
I like it...especially the last paragraph!

[TrueMacedonian]

Originally Posted by makedonche

TM
I like it...especially the last paragraph!

Thanks Makedonche. I have a ton of material like the one above.

[Onur]

I can even see the teardrops on these pages.

Literally 100s of philhellenes from western Europe traveled all around Greece after 1821 to find a Greek in Greece but their disappointments are beyond words because of the people they saw in Greece comparing to their ancient Greece which was fantasized in their minds. They managed to create a Greek nation tough, so it was such a accomplishment at start but we see the result of it today, a nation which gone bankrupt 5-6 times in it`s relatively short history and constantly on life support from western Europe.

[George S.]

THey try to live of the myths & legends.If they can't acknowledge of who they are.Then how can they acknowledge us macedonians.These finds are like gems of music when they mention that macedonians & greeks were not the same.

[Carlin]

Is Antonis Samaras of Vlach origin?

Families of Vlachs from Samarina: Avelas, Agorogiannis, Vrazitikos, Gerasis, Gabetas, Gravanis, Ligouras, Lioupas, Samaras, Sarmaniotis, Stimoniaris, Tsaknakis.

http://hellas.teipir.gr/Thesis/Laris.../en_family.htm

[Carlin]

Travels in Greece and Russia
By Bayard Taylor - G.P. Putnam, 1871

http://books.google.ca/books?id=UdFD...Greece&f=false

PREFACE.
Owing to the pressure of other literary labors, this volume has been too rapidly prepared for the press, to allow me to add a special chapter on the Ethnology of Greece, as I had originally designed. I can only record my complete conviction of the truth of the views entertained by Fallmerayer, that the modern Greeks are a mongrel race, in which the Slavic element is predominant, and that the pure Hellenic blood is to found only in a few localities.

Page 262:
I have already said, and I repeat it, that not one-fifth of the present population can with justice be called Greeks. The remainder are Slavonians, Albanians, Turks, with a slight infusion of Venetian blood. Only in Maina, on the slopes of Parnassus, and in parts of Doris, did I find the ancient type in any considerable amount. In the war, the Albanian blood - the Suliotes, Hydriotes, and Spetziotes - achieved the greatest distinction.


Travelers and scholars in the 19th century clearly "confused" Vlachs for Greeks, Albanians for certain Vlach tribes, etc. For example, Bayard Taylor states that he found the "ancient type" only in Maina, on the slopes of Parnassus, and in Doris: regions held by Vlachs as per other Western travelers and other documents (some considered Maina/Mainiotes to be of Slavonian and Albanian origin). It's also interesting that Bayard Taylor didn't "find" Vlachs at all, only Greeks, Slavonians, Albanians, Turks, Venetians - which only proves that Greeks are Vlachs (or at best Greek-speaking Vlachs, Albanians, Slavs). I am reminded of the 19th century French traveler Cousinery; Taylor never "found" Vlachs, but Cousinery makes mention of Vlach-speakers in Argos, Peloponnesus. The London Quarterly Review, back in 1895, also found "Wallachians to be numerous in the Peloponnesus".

Whatever the confusion and case may be, the myth of Hellenic ethnic or national continuity can be swept away in a great tidal wave.

[Carlin]

A noteworthy remark about "Arvanites, Vlachs and Slavs" by the President of National Council of Education in Greece.

http://maillists.uci.edu/mailman/pub...st/009689.html
http://news.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/_w_...08/2008_280821


Professor Thanos Veremis, President of Greece's National Council of Education and founding member of the influential think-tank Hellenic Foundation for Defence and Foreign Policy (better known by its Greek acronym, ELIAMEP) made the following statement:

"Unfortunately, we (Greeks) are deeply conservative as a society. This (ethnic) homogeneity has been harmful (to us). The situation during the 19th century was different. It was rather fortunate that at that time Koraes and others had the inspiration to connect us with Ancient Hellas (an undertaking) which became the main (pre)occupation of the newly born State. In those days, there were Arvanites, Vlachs and Slavs. All of them had to become (part of) one (national body). And so they became. But this is not to say that in this day and age (we/they) should be under the illusion that (we/they) are descendants of Pericles. This (assimilating process of ethnic/national homogenization) might have been helpful before -even though we could not avoid a civil war- but it does not help us nowadays. Today we are not alone. We are surrounded by many neighbors. The (Greek) society must adapt (?to new realities) instead of remaining insular and introvert."

[Carlin]

Albanians in Thessaly, Euboea, Andros and various other islands.


The earliest evidence for descent Albanians in Thessaly is a letter from Marino Sanudo, written in 1325 and referred to the Albanians, Vlachs who displaced them from Thessaly. Another testimony documents tyrant of Fener (Thessaly) dated 1342. From what writes Katakouzinos coming out, that the first Albanians settled in the mountains of Thessaly, came around in 1315. (See Jn. Chr. Poole: "The Albanians epoikisis at Corinth," page 14).


Within 30 years the Albanians, who came and settled in Thessaly, not only multiply much, but with hard work, they became sought after. Hermit was unpretending and wages. So it offered almost free work bosses - landowners.

In Thessaly, in these years, the Vlachs were the majority of the population. However, when the Albanians increase, began to displace the plain of Thessaly Vlachs. Yet we must have into account, that the Venetians, who held then Pteleos (Ftelio) in the southeastern part of Thessaly, were pleased by the Albanian migration, because the Albanians served as a prison of eastern Thessaly by the Catalan raids, which was established in Salona (Amfissa). [" Except not these pretenders of varying heritage of Angels (continent) enafanisthisan then the first in the plain of Thessaly and large crowds of Albanian immigrants apotelesanton neon and thriving element of this population. Albanians edioun whole activity of the outdoor place and because meth brought themselves wives, the number was increased rapidly and began antikathistanontes Vlachs, oitines until that time have received the maximum number of egkatoikon of Thessaly, itis of them had called Megalovlachia. And the Venetians (Pteleos him), Efron, that provide migration of Albanian This was the great gain, that by this apischolounto the Catalans so to ifkairoun to attack against the neighbors. "Miller - brilliant" The Franks in Greece » , v. A, 354.]

Both of the Vlachs, as well as by the Arvanites are distinguished Karagounides of Thessaly, whose language contains Latin, Romanian and Arvanitic elements. From old was pronounced Albanian element in Dacia (Romania at present about) who homing and then promoted to Thessaly. This race, which is miscegenation Albanians and Romanians are probably the Karagounides. The Alvanoroumanoi is also known as Arvanitovlachs.


The Venetians brought many Albanians in Euboea, where some points were devastated by plague. Ceded to them to cultivate fallow provided to keep horses and ranked them by the young in the army and defend your country from Evia listopeirates and other enemies. 1363 (June 8), the Venetian Senate finds that " the Negroponte (the city) and the entire island (Evia) have colonized and income taxes are too high "; (see Thiriet, Regestes, I, pp. . 105, No. 408). From Evia Albanians immigrated to Andros and other islands.

http://www.freeinquiry.gr/pro.php?id...a6ac948f26654b

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by Carlin

A noteworthy remark about "Arvanites, Vlachs and Slavs" by the President of National Council of Education in Greece.

I wonder if he was sentenced to death by firing squad for pointing out some home truths!