The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • tchaiku
    Member
    • Nov 2016
    • 786

    "Boeotia, with Euboea, is largely in the hands of Toskh Albanians; Thessaly in those of Vlachs and Anatolians"

    Who are those Anatolians?

    Comment

    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
      "Boeotia, with Euboea, is largely in the hands of Toskh Albanians; Thessaly in those of Vlachs and Anatolians"

      Who are those Anatolians?
      The Kailar Turks formerly inhabited parts of Thessaly and Macedonia (especially near the town of Kozani and modern Ptolemaida). Before 1360, large numbers of nomad shepherds, or Yörüks, from the district of Konya, in Asia Minor, had settled in the country; their descendants are still known as "Konariotes" in Greek. Further immigration from this region took place from time to time up to the middle of the 18th century. After the establishment of the feudal system in 1397 many of the Seljuk noble families came over from Asia Minor; some of the beys or Muslim landowners in southern Macedonia before the Balkan Wars may have been their descendants.

      Comment

      • Amphipolis
        Banned
        • Aug 2014
        • 1328

        Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
        "Boeotia, with Euboea, is largely in the hands of Toskh Albanians; Thessaly in those of Vlachs and Anatolians"

        Who are those Anatolians?
        That's partly answered in the full statement of the author in 1902:

        David George Hogarth (page 153, "The Nearer East"):

        "Boeotia, with Euboea, is largely in the hands of Toskh Albanians; Thessaly in those of Vlachs and Anatolians, introduced from Konia about the tenth century; and Macedonia, north of Vistritza, in those of a blend of Slav with Bulgar mixed further with Vlach and Anatolian elements."

        Comment

        • Amphipolis
          Banned
          • Aug 2014
          • 1328

          Originally posted by Carlin View Post
          Before 1360, large numbers of nomad shepherds, or Yörüks, from the district of Konya, in Asia Minor, had settled in the country; their descendants are still known as "Konariotes" in Greek.
          The bold part is not true and doesn't come from the source, so I just deleted it from Wikipedia. A single google search shows there are zero results in Greek. The term is unknown in Greece, at least today, while in medieval sources in Serres these people are called Koynari (Κοϊνάροι).

          I'm not sure who produces and spreads all this false information which is about Greece but doesn't come from Greece.


          ==
          Last edited by Amphipolis; 06-02-2017, 02:38 AM.

          Comment

          • tchaiku
            Member
            • Nov 2016
            • 786

            Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
            His view is as follows:
            The text is not refered to Maniots as pagans but to Tsakones/Tzakones.
            The castle of Maini excists to the midle south peninsula of Peloponnese. (more south of the town of Oitilo in the map > west[=left] side of the midle south peninsula).
            The text refers that the inhabitans of the castle of Maini, called Hellenes from the local Maniots, and the descent of those Hellenes are from the Malea [eastern Peloponnese] peninsula, where there is the Monemvasia area.
            Willibald wrotein his biography that when he was going to Jerusalem from Sicily in 723 AD his ship stopped "ad urbem Manafasiam in Sclavenia terra" ("in the city of Monemvasia in the land of Sclavenia").

            Comment

            • tchaiku
              Member
              • Nov 2016
              • 786

              Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
              His view is as follows:
              The text is not refered to Maniots as pagans but to Tsakones/Tzakones.
              The castle of Maini excists to the midle south peninsula of Peloponnese. (more south of the town of Oitilo in the map > west[=left] side of the midle south peninsula).
              The text refers that the inhabitans of the castle of Maini, called Hellenes from the local Maniots, and the descent of those Hellenes are from the Malea [eastern Peloponnese] peninsula, where there is the Monemvasia area.

              ''Be it known that the inhabitants of Castle Maina are not from the race of aforesaid Slavs (Melingoi and Ezeritai dwelling on the Taygetus) but from the older Romaioi, who up to the present time are termed Hellenes by the local inhabitants on account of their being in olden times idolaters and worshippers of idols like the ancient Greeks, and who were baptized and became Christians in the reign of the glorious Basil. The place in which they live is waterless and inaccessible, but has olives from which they gain some consolation.''


              Reign of Basil 867–886


              The author is clearly not talking about Tsakonians who became pagans in the 10th century but for an earlier period of time.
              --
              The area inhabited by the Maniates was first called by the name "Maina" and was associated with the castle of Tigani. The Maniots at that time were called "Hellenes"—that is, pagans (see Names of the Greeks)—and were only Christianized fully in the 9th century AD, though some church ruins from the 4th century AD indicate that Christianity was practiced by some Maniots in the region at an earlier time. The Maniots were the last inhabitants of Greece to openly follow the pagan Hellenic religion. This can be explained by the mountainous nature of Mani's terrain, which enabled them to escape the attempts of the Eastern Roman Empire to Christianize Greece by force.

              So my point still stands.

              Athens This question has been asked several times, and should be addressed properly once and for all. While I will agree that pockets of Romaic-speakers lived in what were to become the domains of the modern 'Hellenic' state and elsewhere in the Balkans, particularly where it concerns the main trading areas (where as it so
              Last edited by tchaiku; 06-04-2017, 09:53 AM.

              Comment

              • tchaiku
                Member
                • Nov 2016
                • 786



                Greeks are genetically closer mostly with Albanians. Probably due to geography position.
                DNA results for ancient ancestry are meaningless without backing historical data.

                Comment

                • tchaiku
                  Member
                  • Nov 2016
                  • 786

                  Aromanians another category ( Vlachs) are those who are known today as "Greek minority" in Albania. It is historical fact that the ancestors of the "minorities" of today were farmers coming from the Pindos mountains, to work on southern areas. Zones of them have come to the Middle Ages and during the time that the new name was different "Little Wallachia" (Μικρά Βλαχία or “Upper Walachia,” - Ανώβλαχα ) So arrivals as farmers in areas Vurgu, Delvina, Dropullit etc. were Vlach who spoke bilingually Greek (maybe even Albanian). Given the influence of the church and especially in the Greek policies, we can understand very well why the so-called "Greek minority" is called such way. So "Greek minority" is not a Greek minority. (For more you can read the "History of the Balkans" by Georges Castellan.)


                  The grecophone population, which had come to South Albania in the XVII-XVIII century mainly as farmers in Albania for Albanian Beys, property managed to consolidate, evolve and become a national minority. During this process, part of this minority became not only the grecophone emigrants from Greece, but also Vlach individuals who lived or settled at different times in the area where the Albanian minority lives today as well as Albanian Orthodox who descended to Vurgu area Of Dropull from the surrounding highlands. These were hellenized as a result of historical circumstances such as the powerful influence of the Greek church, Greek-language education, contacts with Greece, the intensive political activity of the Greek government, as well as daily contacts and broad links with the Grecofone population as well as marriages. After the creation of the Albanian state, this minority was consolidated and further developed from the political, economic, cultural and social point of view. Its existence, property or rights were never questioned by governments and the new Albanian state.

                  Throughout this period Greece tried to use this minority as a bastion to preserve Hellenism and its institutions in South Albania, which had the final object of annexing this territory. She carefully used the minorities in the Northern Epirus traumatic communion of 1914-1915, though at the head of this masquerade she tried to engage Greek Orthodox Christians. Later in the years 1920-1924, it encouraged the minority to boycott and oppose state-building processes as well as nationalization of various institutions in Albania. The minority boycotted the first political elections of 1921, strongly opposed the autocephaly of the Albanian Orthodox Church and served as a bastion of Greek political propaganda against Albanian national education in areas beyond the minority.

                  Comment

                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    The ... fear makes the nationalist

                    URL:


                    Text: Vasilis Rafailidis

                    Concluding paragraph of the text:
                    And all because the Federal State solution was rejected. And instead, the solution of the "homogeneous" National State was preferred. For the great powers of the time, it was more convenient to control a small state than ten tiny states. And over the years and telling it, we finally convinced that we are all pure Greeks. And they made us not dare to distinguish our nationality from our religion. Thus, anyone who is baptized a Christian orthodox, along with the "divine grace" gets inside the pool and his "charisma" feels like a Greek, and he has no idea what it means to be a Greek. With these and with many other mistakes, good Greeks are now considered good Christians. Time to stop this bloody scam.

                    Comment

                    • tchaiku
                      Member
                      • Nov 2016
                      • 786

                      Originally posted by Carlin View Post
                      The ... fear makes the nationalist

                      URL:


                      Text: Vasilis Rafailidis

                      Concluding paragraph of the text:
                      And all because the Federal State solution was rejected. And instead, the solution of the "homogeneous" National State was preferred. For the great powers of the time, it was more convenient to control a small state than ten tiny states. And over the years and telling it, we finally convinced that we are all pure Greeks. And they made us not dare to distinguish our nationality from our religion. Thus, anyone who is baptized a Christian orthodox, along with the "divine grace" gets inside the pool and his "charisma" feels like a Greek, and he has no idea what it means to be a Greek. With these and with many other mistakes, good Greeks are now considered good Christians. Time to stop this bloody scam.
                      Modern Greece is the most multi ethnic state in Europe.

                      Comment

                      • tchaiku
                        Member
                        • Nov 2016
                        • 786

                        In the 9th century Byzantine military and ecclesiastical authority was gradually re-established in the Peloponnese and by the 10th century most of the Slavs had already been hellenized.

                        Comment

                        • tchaiku
                          Member
                          • Nov 2016
                          • 786

                          Carlin, beside Slavic invasion do you have any strong evidence for the massive extermination of ancient Hellenes?
                          Last edited by tchaiku; 06-21-2017, 07:38 AM.

                          Comment

                          • Carlin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3332

                            Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                            Carlin, beside Slavic invasion do you have any strong evidence for the massive extermination of ancient Hellenes?
                            Read pages 60 to 65 --> Section VII, DEPOPULATION OF GREECE CAUSED BY THE ROMAN GOVERNMENT

                            Greece Under the Romans: A Historical View of the Condition of the ..., Part 717 - By George Finlay

                            URL:


                            In addition to this, in the 3rd century AD Goths ravaged Greece (link below).

                            URL:
                            Chapter 10 of 'The History Of The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire'; The emperors Decius, Gallus, Aemilianus,Valerian and Gallienus

                            Comment

                            • tchaiku
                              Member
                              • Nov 2016
                              • 786



                              According to the above register, the Greeks of the region were less than Albanians: 1,742 Greek families and 1,836 Albanians are counted. More information can be found in the book by Vasilis Panagiotopoulos: "Population and settlements of the Peloponnese, 13th-18th century" (Historical Archive, Emporiki Bank of Greece, Athens, 1987), from which the above aggregate tables .
                              (Amphipolis can you help us what is this picture representing, which region etc?)

                              Αναλυτικά στοιχεία για όλα τα χωριά τής ΒΔ Πελοποννήσου μπορείτε να δείτε στο Παράρτημα “Α” (κάντε κλίκ εδώ). Στη στήλη (γ) σημειώνονται με το γράμμα Ε τα ελληνικά και με το γράμμα Α τα αλβανικά χωριά. (Για την περιοχή τής Αχαΐας για παράδειγμα, το ποσοστό των οικισμών με αρβανίτικο όνομα είναι 74,5%).

                              Detailed information about all the villages of ND Peloponnese can be found in Annex "A" (click here). Column (c) is marked with the letter E in Greek and the letter A with the Albanian villages. (For example, the percentage of settlements with an Arvanite name is 74.5% for the Achaia region).


                              E = Greek
                              A = Albanian




                              What about this? Which region (Achaea?) or what is it talking about families, villages etc?

                              Comment

                              • Carlin
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 3332

                                The End of the Ancient World, By Ferdinand Lot - Page 273:

                                "Even to-day Romios is still used by the common people. Hellene is an artificial term revived in the nineteenth century. The capital of the Empire is called Roum by the Arab and Turkish peoples of Asia."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X