The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece - Page 79

tchaiku · 09-25-2018, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlin

I will provide a quick summary of the interesting points above, with additional explanations/clarifications, in English:
- "Pistiki" were the last remnants of actual Vlach-speakers (and/or actual Shepherds) in Akarnania. By this time (late 19th century), almost all Vlach-speakers (most of the population) of Akarnania & Aetolia were Greeks and fully (self-)hellenized and abandoned their Vlach language.*
- The same name, "Pistiki", is also found among the Vlachs who emigrated to Asia Minor (Burad left an interesting short testimony). These "Pistiki" of Asia Minor were fully hellenized. The same case happened with the Bomi - the Vlach-speakers of Boeotia - who fully self-hellenized.
- Sarakatsani most likely of Vlach origins - they used to wear very similar clothing/costumes as the Farsherioti Vlachs.

* - Vlach-speakers basically comprised the bulk and outright majority of Aetolia, Akarnania, and adjacent areas in the Middle Ages; these regions comprised an extensive district which was known in the Middle Ages as Small Wallachia (Μικρή Βλαχία; Mikrí vlahía).

Edited (added additional screenshot, below)

BUMP .... anyways I still would like to see a primary source saying most people in those region were Vlachs.

Liberator of Makedonija · 10-01-2018, 07:06 AM

The Arvanitovlachs in Roumeli:

https://www.vlachs.gr/en/the-vlachs-...ainland-greece

Carlin · 10-07-2018, 12:11 AM

The Westminster Review - Volumes 61-62 - Pages 191 and 192, Year 1854.

Liberator of Makedonija · 10-08-2018, 02:43 AM

The Peloponnesian city of Tripoli was known as 'Dobrolitsa' during the Middle Ages, with even Wikipedia suggesting a South Slavic origin.

Carlin · 10-09-2018, 08:02 PM

Tripoli - For his part, François Pouqueville talks about colonies established by refugees of Slavic and Vlach origin from northern Greece and if Slavo-Vlach etymologies are good Tripolitsa is likely to be one of them.

La ville fut fondée vers le xive siècle. Son nom grec de « Tripolitsa » pourrait peut-être se référer aux trois villes alors abandonnées de Mantinée, Tégée et Pallantion. Au Moyen Âge, elle apparaît sous les noms de « Dobrolica » signifiant en slave, selon les interprétations, « bon lieu » ou « ville aux chênes », de « Drobolitsa » signifiant en valaque « morcelé, fragmenté, partagé », de « Tripolizza » pour les génois et les vénitiens au xviie siècle, et de « Tarabolusa » pour les turcs. De son côté, François Pouqueville évoque des colonies établies par des réfugiés d'origine slave et valaque venus du nord de la Grèce et si les étymologies slavo-valaques sont les bonnes, Tripolitsa pourrait être l'une d'elles.

↑ François Pouqueville, Mémoire sur les colonies valaques établies dans les montagnes de la Grèce depuis Fienne jusque dans la Morée, Ernest Desplaces, Paris 1834, dans Louis Gabriel Michaud.

John Nandris

Carlin · 10-14-2018, 08:46 AM

Agrinio (Greek: Αγρίνιο, Latin: Agrinium) is the largest city of the Aetolia-Acarnania regional unit of Greece and its largest municipality, with 106,053 inhabitants. In medieval times and until 1836, the city was known as Vrachori (Βραχώρι).

URL:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrinio

Testimony from Dionysios Pyrros, 1834 (first citation below - the second testimony, also from Pyrros, refers to Kolokotronis and many thousands of his VLACH comrades/fighters).

"Agrinio, commonly known as Vrachori ... It is called Vrachori from Vlachohori, because the first settlers were Vlachs, poor people"

URL:
https://www.agrinionews.gr/%CF%80%CE...%CF%8C-%CF%84/

From this link, we read the following relevant points:
- The city of Agrinio was founded by Vlachs in the beginning of the 13th century
- The previous name of the city (Vrachori) according to the prevailing etymological approach comes from the word Vlachohori
- The Vlach language group is therefore an integral part of Aetolia-Acarnania and especially the city of Agrinio for centuries

The residents of modern Agrinio and adjacent areas are mostly (Self-) Hellenized descendants of medieval Vlachs who formed the ethnic bulk of Aetolia-Acarnania as a whole. (I also read recently that not that long ago some Souliotes and Epirotes came from the north and settled in Agrinio.)

Liberator of Makedonija · 10-16-2018, 12:59 AM

From The Little Book of Big Greek Lies by Risto Stefov

tchaiku · 10-23-2018, 03:00 PM

Bernard Randolph - 1643

IT Lyes to the North of Boeotia extending North West and South East about 120 miles; Its Breadth, at the broadest place not above 30. It was taken from the Venetians in the year 1471. The soil is very fertile, affording all sorts of Graine, Wine, and Oyle, as likewise Flesh and Fowl; the Sea abounding with Fish. Since the Turks have had possession of it, most of the Greeks are Fled from the Villages, and Townes; So as the inland places are mostly supplyed by Al∣baneses, who are the Shepherds, and serve the Turks at their Farmes. Formerly here were two Citys, and 500. Townes and Villages; Now there is but one, which can be called a City, which is the ancient Chalcis and now hath the name of the Island; by the Turks it is called Egriboz. It stands on a point of Land, having the Sea two Thirds about it. Betwixt it and the Maine is a small Island, with a strong Castle. From the Maine to the small Island is a bridge built up∣on six good Arches, and thence to the Maine

...

None but Turks and Jews live within the Ca∣stle, where are very spacious houses, and four which deserve the name of Seraglios; One for the Basha, at the right hand coming into the Castle from the Port; One for his Lievetenant or Ki∣ahja; a Third belonging to Ibrahim Aga's Son (of whose Father we will speak anon; ) and the Fourth, to Muzlee Aga; Which are very richly set out with carved work and painting.

https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo2/A...;view=fulltext

tchaiku · 10-29-2018, 05:25 AM

Carlin · 11-01-2018, 06:57 PM

Vasili: The Arvanite language was used by the people in Greece

URLs:
http://360grade.al/148796/vasili-gju...pull-ne-greqi/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEHIqpGtoNo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYS60LKiWlg

Vasili: "For many years, Arvanite language was accepted as the language of the people. So, the Arvanite language was the language of the people, while the official language was Hellenic. The most elite area of Nafplio is called "Arvanitja". It is the first capital."

Vasili: "The Arvanites have been an extraordinary factor. They were 90% of the uprising against the Ottomans in 1921."

10-01-2018, 07:06 AM	#782
Liberator of Makedonija Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Australia Posts: 1,594	The Arvanitovlachs in Roumeli: https://www.vlachs.gr/en/the-vlachs-...ainland-greece __________________ I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

10-08-2018, 02:43 AM	#784
Liberator of Makedonija Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Australia Posts: 1,594	The Peloponnesian city of Tripoli was known as 'Dobrolitsa' during the Middle Ages, with even Wikipedia suggesting a South Slavic origin. __________________ I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

10-09-2018, 08:02 PM	#785
Carlin Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 3,308	Tripoli - For his part, François Pouqueville talks about colonies established by refugees of Slavic and Vlach origin from northern Greece and if Slavo-Vlach etymologies are good Tripolitsa is likely to be one of them. La ville fut fondée vers le xive siècle. Son nom grec de « Tripolitsa » pourrait peut-être se référer aux trois villes alors abandonnées de Mantinée, Tégée et Pallantion. Au Moyen Âge, elle apparaît sous les noms de « Dobrolica » signifiant en slave, selon les interprétations, « bon lieu » ou « ville aux chênes », de « Drobolitsa » signifiant en valaque « morcelé, fragmenté, partagé », de « Tripolizza » pour les génois et les vénitiens au xviie siècle, et de « Tarabolusa » pour les turcs. De son côté, François Pouqueville évoque des colonies établies par des réfugiés d'origine slave et valaque venus du nord de la Grèce et si les étymologies slavo-valaques sont les bonnes, Tripolitsa pourrait être l'une d'elles. ↑ François Pouqueville, Mémoire sur les colonies valaques établies dans les montagnes de la Grèce depuis Fienne jusque dans la Morée, Ernest Desplaces, Paris 1834, dans Louis Gabriel Michaud. John Nandris Last edited by Carlin; 10-09-2018 at 09:22 PM.

10-14-2018, 08:46 AM	#786
Carlin Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 3,308	Agrinio (Greek: Αγρίνιο, Latin: Agrinium) is the largest city of the Aetolia-Acarnania regional unit of Greece and its largest municipality, with 106,053 inhabitants. In medieval times and until 1836, the city was known as Vrachori (Βραχώρι). URL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrinio Testimony from Dionysios Pyrros, 1834 (first citation below - the second testimony, also from Pyrros, refers to Kolokotronis and many thousands of his VLACH comrades/fighters). "Agrinio, commonly known as Vrachori ... It is called Vrachori from Vlachohori, because the first settlers were Vlachs, poor people" URL: https://www.agrinionews.gr/%CF%80%CE...%CF%8C-%CF%84/ From this link, we read the following relevant points: - The city of Agrinio was founded by Vlachs in the beginning of the 13th century - The previous name of the city (Vrachori) according to the prevailing etymological approach comes from the word Vlachohori - The Vlach language group is therefore an integral part of Aetolia-Acarnania and especially the city of Agrinio for centuries The residents of modern Agrinio and adjacent areas are mostly (Self-) Hellenized descendants of medieval Vlachs who formed the ethnic bulk of Aetolia-Acarnania as a whole. (I also read recently that not that long ago some Souliotes and Epirotes came from the north and settled in Agrinio.) Last edited by Carlin; 10-14-2018 at 09:04 AM.

10-16-2018, 12:59 AM	#787
Liberator of Makedonija Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Australia Posts: 1,594	From The Little Book of Big Greek Lies by Risto Stefov __________________ I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

10-07-2018, 12:11 AM	#783
Carlin Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 3,308	The Westminster Review - Volumes 61-62 - Pages 191 and 192, Year 1854.

10-23-2018, 03:00 PM	#788
tchaiku Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 786	Bernard Randolph - 1643 IT Lyes to the North of Boeotia extending North West and South East about 120 miles; Its Breadth, at the broadest place not above 30. It was taken from the Venetians in the year 1471. The soil is very fertile, affording all sorts of Graine, Wine, and Oyle, as likewise Flesh and Fowl; the Sea abounding with Fish. Since the Turks have had possession of it, most of the Greeks are Fled from the Villages, and Townes; So as the inland places are mostly supplyed by Al∣baneses, who are the Shepherds, and serve the Turks at their Farmes. Formerly here were two Citys, and 500. Townes and Villages; Now there is but one, which can be called a City, which is the ancient Chalcis and now hath the name of the Island; by the Turks it is called Egriboz. It stands on a point of Land, having the Sea two Thirds about it. Betwixt it and the Maine is a small Island, with a strong Castle. From the Maine to the small Island is a bridge built up∣on six good Arches, and thence to the Maine ... None but Turks and Jews live within the Ca∣stle, where are very spacious houses, and four which deserve the name of Seraglios; One for the Basha, at the right hand coming into the Castle from the Port; One for his Lievetenant or Ki∣ahja; a Third belonging to Ibrahim Aga's Son (of whose Father we will speak anon; ) and the Fourth, to Muzlee Aga; Which are very richly set out with carved work and painting. https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo2/A...;view=fulltext

10-29-2018, 05:25 AM	#789
tchaiku Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 786

11-01-2018, 06:57 PM	#790
Carlin Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 3,308	Vasili: The Arvanite language was used by the people in Greece URLs: http://360grade.al/148796/vasili-gju...pull-ne-greqi/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEHIqpGtoNo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYS60LKiWlg Vasili: "For many years, Arvanite language was accepted as the language of the people. So, the Arvanite language was the language of the people, while the official language was Hellenic. The most elite area of Nafplio is called "Arvanitja". It is the first capital." Vasili: "The Arvanites have been an extraordinary factor. They were 90% of the uprising against the Ottomans in 1921."

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