The Macedonian Minority in Albania and Kosovo

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  • Serdarot
    Member
    • Feb 2010
    • 605

    Originally posted by Epirot View Post
    ...because no Goran has ever identify himself as a Macedonian.
    in your la la land?

    what you gonna do if some Goran say "i am Macedonian"??? gonna admit that you are un-informed, liar, propagandist?

    btw, rest of your text (most of it) is also bunch of bs...
    Bratot:
    Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.

    Comment

    • Onur
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2010
      • 2389

      Originally posted by Epirot View Post
      Saying that 'ethnic Albanian extremists that go from place to place forcing people to declare as 'Albanians' is just a dirty speculation. Firstly, you have no clue who are these Albanian extremist because there is no documented evidence of any case when Albanians forced to declare others as Albanians.



      2. 'Supposed Asiatic heritage of Bulgarians'? Are you out of mind, SoM? Asiatic heritage of the Bulgarians is not a supposed thing but a very well-documented fact. All Bulgarian historians do admit their Asiatic background, so it would be a non-sense to be smarter than Bulgarian historians.

      I guess that Central Asiatic origin of the Bulgarians is the prevailing opinion or case closed!



      Epirot, I read lots of articles and personal statements from the Turks in Kosovo about Albanian oppression to force them to accept Albanian identity. It`s widely known problem here in Turkey.

      Also, i don't know the case atm but there was Albanian pressure upon Turkish people in Macedonia too.




      About Bulgars;
      AFAIK, this story of Persian connection with early Bulgars recently made up by some Bulgarian nationalists. It doesn't have any provable base. It`s probably just an attempt to connect themselves with antiquity world, to the Persians.

      Bulgars simply came from Volga region before the era of Mongol invasion. They were mostly Tatars who spoke Turkic language. They were using Turkic Orkhon script. They have been mixed with all the local people in Balkans, including Cuman Turks and they have been converted to Christianity laters. Around same time, their cousins Volga Bulgars(Tatars) converted to Islam but they preserved their own Turkic language.

      Second Bulgar Kingdom at Balkans(first one was at Volga), founded by a dynasty named "Asen", which means "wolf" in Turkish. Wolves was a sacred animal in Turkish shamanism, also there was another dynasty named "Asen" at Gokturk(sky-turks) empire of 6th century at Caucasus. I read a book about this last month, so i remember the name of one of the Khan was "Ivan Asen the Belgun" which means "Ivan the wise wolf" in Turkish. We use the same word as "Bilgin" in Turkish atm, means "wise" in English.

      Their second dynasty was named "Terters" which basically derived from the word "Tatars"

      This one is funny; Their last dynasty before the conquest of Ottoman Empire was named as "Shishman, Sisman", means "fat, fatty, overweight" in Turkish I have no idea why they nicknamed themselves as "fatty", probably the first Khan was just obese or maybe other people called them like that, dunno











      Instead of wikipedia links, you can read the book here;

      http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=52110#post52110
      Last edited by Onur; 06-06-2010, 07:47 PM.

      Comment

      • Epirot
        Member
        • Mar 2010
        • 399

        Originally posted by Serdarot View Post
        in your la la land?

        what you gonna do if some Goran say "i am Macedonian"??? gonna admit that you are un-informed, liar, propagandist?

        btw, rest of your text (most of it) is also bunch of bs...
        Calm down, Serdarot! I think it is very pointless to get a mad with me because Gorani do not called themselves as Macedonians! How can I be un-informed, liar and propagandist when all what I say is the impression I've got after a lot of meetings and conversations with Goranis?

        I am not propagandizing nothing because I don't claim Goranis as Albanians, Macedonians, Serbians or Bulgarians. I just claim that they are a distinct ethno-linguistic group. That's all!

        If the rest of my text is a bunch of bs, why do you read it?

        See ya
        Last edited by Epirot; 06-06-2010, 03:55 PM.
        IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!

        Comment

        • Epirot
          Member
          • Mar 2010
          • 399

          Originally posted by Onur View Post
          Epirot, I read lots of articles and personal statements from the Turks in Kosovo about Albanian oppression to force them to accept Albanian identity. It`s widely known problem here in Turkey.

          Also, i don't know the case atm but there was Albanian pressure upon Turkish people in Macedonia too.
          OK...but you did not bring any article from a lots you have read?
          How can Albanians do oppression to force Turks to accept the Albanian identity, when Albanians do not govern the state of Kosova? I mean here is a puppet government but nobody gives a shit for it because it is sub-ordinated into the hands of foreign authorities. It just like in Bosnia and Hercegovina where independence exists only in documents but not in reality because Americans are overlords of Bosnia. So, your claim that Albanians make oppression upon the non-Albanians is just speculation.
          IF OUR CHRONICLES DO NOT LIE, WE CALL OURSELVES AS EPIROTES!

          Comment

          • fyrOM
            Banned
            • Feb 2010
            • 2180

            No doubt the words derived from gor refer to up upper or high but also can refer to woods or forest as in crna gora. Could the gorani people be simply referring to the wood forest people as any mountainous region has forests growing on it. it’s a strange word because words such as burn gori fuel gorilo. I could be way off but many words have this strange link. If I had to guess up upper and high would have been the first use as you can refer to things being up high without any reference to wood but the woods are in the mountains ie a high place and the mountains are covered with woods/forests and stuff you brink back from the mountains is fuel.

            Odi gore na plaminata I zemi drva za gorilo da imame sto da gorime vecer. I think the reference of gora as woods is Serbian. The area gorani as previously posted by many seems to have a Serbian influence. Could the be referring the up high woodland/forest people.

            Comment

            • Serdarot
              Member
              • Feb 2010
              • 605

              Originally posted by Epirot View Post
              Calm down, Serdarot! I think it is very pointless to get a mad with me because Gorani do not called themselves as Macedonians! How can I be un-informed, liar and propagandist when all what I say is the impression I've got after a lot of meetings and conversations with Goranis?

              ...
              and i´ve met many Gorani and Torbeshi who are clearly stating that they are Macedonians.

              the theories about separate ethnic group Gorani / Torbeshi who have Thracian or "Bogomil" roots are pure anti-Macedonian propaganda.

              Btw, seems that you are not best friend with logic

              how could i know that your text is full of bs, if i don´t read it first?
              Bratot:
              Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.

              Comment

              • Serdarot
                Member
                • Feb 2010
                • 605

                Originally posted by Epirot View Post
                So, your claim that Albanians make oppression upon the non-Albanians is just speculation.
                again la la land?

                take less drugs, dude

                the Albanians from Kosovo are doing all kinds of terror against non-Albanian population.

                most of the Gipsies, Macedonians, Serbs and other non-shiptars were / are forced to leave their homes.

                your stories you can tell to CNN and BBC, after you force your children cry with help of onion.

                save your propaganda bs for those who are not informed, we know you TOO good
                Bratot:
                Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.

                Comment

                • Bratot
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 2855

                  Originally posted by OziMak View Post
                  No doubt the words derived from gor refer to up upper or high but also can refer to woods or forest as in crna gora. Could the gorani people be simply referring to the wood forest people as any mountainous region has forests growing on it. it’s a strange word because words such as burn gori fuel gorilo. I could be way off but many words have this strange link. If I had to guess up upper and high would have been the first use as you can refer to things being up high without any reference to wood but the woods are in the mountains ie a high place and the mountains are covered with woods/forests and stuff you brink back from the mountains is fuel.

                  Odi gore na plaminata I zemi drva za gorilo da imame sto da gorime vecer. I think the reference of gora as woods is Serbian. The area gorani as previously posted by many seems to have a Serbian influence. Could the be referring the up high woodland/forest people.
                  What in your opinion is older and commonly use by the common people
                  1. Gora
                  2. Planina

                  hmm?

                  Gorani is equivalent to Gorale from the Karpathian mountains among Poland, Czech and Slovakia borders.



                  Gora (mkd) - Góra (pl)

                  And there is confirmed ethnolect similarity between the karpathian Gorale (Gorani) with Vlach speech from Balkans and I have to point out the Gorale is an ethnographic term but collective term for few ethnic groups that capture a mountaineous region.

                  You have Karpathians Gorals, you have Caucasian, Balkan etc.

                  The name GORANI is not an ethnic term but rather geographical term opposite to those people living in flat regions, poljaci - those who work on the fields, agrocultural preocupation.

                  We use the term Planinci also as synonym for the people coming from mountianeous region.

                  планинец m. hill man, mountaineer
                  гора f. forest, wood

                  P.S. "Gorski venec"

                  According to the lexicon the term Planina derives from Greek - Pianus/Planus meaning - flat wtf!
                  Last edited by Bratot; 06-07-2010, 03:07 AM.
                  The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                  Comment

                  • Pelister
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2742

                    Gora is a native term that literally means "high place"

                    Gora'ni "people of the high places"

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      Originally posted by Epirot
                      SoM you're making prejudices now...because no Goran has ever identify himself as a Macedonian.......I met many of them but they called themselves Torbesh and not Macedonian.
                      That is either a blatant lie, or you have failed to meet more than one or two 'Albanophile' Torbeshi, and read the earlier posts on this thread which disprove your false assertions.
                      Saying that 'ethnic Albanian extremists that go from place to place forcing people to declare as 'Albanians' is just a dirty speculation.
                      No it's not, I am sure there are articles out there about it, you can't tell me you haven't heard of this problem before.
                      ...........................So, believe me, that nobody in Kosova is forced to became an Albanian.
                      Yeah,ok, I will believe you over everybody else. You've shown your bias Epirot, that's unfortunate.
                      'Supposed Asiatic heritage of Bulgarians'? Are you out of mind, SoM?
                      The modern Bulgarians in the Balkans are as Turkic as you are Illyrian. The real Bulgars of Asparukh, an Asiatic horde of 30,000 to 50,000, even at 100,000, left little in Thrace but their name. There were millions of people speaking a form of my language already there.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • VMRO
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 1462

                        I read somewhere where some Gorani claim to be Macedonians who originated from Resen where their ancestors left in the 18th/19th century.
                        Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

                        Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.

                        Comment

                        • Pelister
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 2742

                          In Prizren (Kosovo) the UN records show about 50,000 people who identified themselves as Torbeshi. This is interesting because 'Torbesh' is a Macedonian designation. As far as I am aware the Gorani call themselves 'Gorani' but believe they are Macedonians.

                          Comment

                          • Prolet
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2009
                            • 5241

                            Macedonian Government Handing out Passports to so caled Bulgarian Citizens in Albania

                            Special thanks to TM for this information, i found footage on Kanal 5 below so people can see the footage.

                            Bozidar Dimitrov is proving again how baseless his accusations are, i dont think anybody in the Bulgarian Embassy in Tirana would like a Macedonian Passport anyway.

                            The Minister without Portfolio for Bulgarians Abroad, Bozhidar Dimitrov, is convinced Skopje is leading a pro-Macedonian propaganda in Albanian regions populated with ethnic Bulgarians. According to Dimitrov, the monitoring of the 3 such Albanian regions - Golo Bardo, Mala Prespa and Gora, shows Skopje is making all efforts to quickly grant Macedonian citizenship to about 100 000 ethnic Bulgarians living there.


                            Diaspora Minister: Macedonia Assimilates Bulgarian-Albanians
                            Diplomacy | July 17, 2010, Saturday

                            The Minister without Portfolio for Bulgarians Abroad, Bozhidar Dimitrov, is convinced Skopje is leading a pro-Macedonian propaganda in Albanian regions populated with ethnic Bulgarians.

                            According to Dimitrov, the monitoring of the 3 such Albanian regions – Golo Bardo, Mala Prespa and Gora, shows Skopje is making all efforts to quickly grant Macedonian citizenship to about 100 000 ethnic Bulgarians living there.

                            “Unlike Bulgaria, which makes people wait for citizenship for 3 to 4 years, the Macedonians are granting passports in just 2 months and charge EUR 50. There will be a census of the Albanian population next year and Skopje is hoping to prove a large Macedonian minority presence,” Dimitrov says.

                            The number of Albanians wishing to obtain Macedonian citizenship is skyrocketing after the EU lifted the visa regime for Macedonians, according to the Minister.

                            Канал 5 телевизија како една од водечките телевизиски куќи во Македонија, од 1998 година на малите екрани до гледање онлајн денес, известува за најновите вести од Македонија, регионот и светот.
                            МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              Unlike Bulgaria, which makes people wait for citizenship for 3 to 4 years, the Macedonians are granting passports in just 2 months and charge EUR 50.
                              Who cares what Bulgaria does, Macedonia is giving citizenship to Macedonians outside of the republic, quite simple. I seriously don't know how the Bulgarians are not ashamed of themselves when they see this blatant propaganda (that nobody believes) on their media.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              • Bratot
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 2855

                                I think he seek reciprocity
                                The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                                Comment

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